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tenchu27
3/11/2007 9:39am,
Has anybody ever thought that during the the Tokugawa period and other times when war was not going on that some Over paid Samurai bored out of their minds decided to make life interesting and created some martial arts which were complete BS and focused on ettiquette and prettyness. Then hundreds of years later people started studying them and saying they were proven on the battlefield?There is no F##*ing way I would be trying to use empty handed techniques in a medieval battle.I mean seriously how much time did these guys have on their hands to make some of this stuff up? I don't know how much they drank back then but you dont see near as much arts coming out of Europe, probably beacause back then ,they were drunk and whoreing it as they are still doing today!While The samurai were writing books on how to make tea and arrange flowers.:laughing8

WorldWarCheese
3/11/2007 11:52am,
o.O
And here I though that they were supposed to use the amazing and deadly "SWORD CATCH" technique and dominate the battlefield with icredible unarmed fighting skills.

Look. Samurai always learned unarmed combat, just like our modern army does today. And once the Tokugawa Period began, less armored hacking occured and more bar-brawls did, so the importance of learning how to spear a guy after 200 years just didn't seem so important anymore. They learned it because it was tradition. Sure they still had swords but to gain some cash what are you going to teach commoners to fight with? Swords the government doesn't allow them to use or their hands?

This is a wierd thread.

glad2bhere
3/11/2007 12:26pm,
I remember a few years back when the catch phrase "don't believe the hype" was all the rage. I think this is a good place to resurrect this comment.

As far as I am concerned I would no more use material from the TOKUGAWA Period to characterize the Samurai warrior class and BUSHIDO than I would use MORTE D'ARTHUR to explain the European Knights of the Middle Ages. Get ahold of Friday's LEGACIES OF THE SWORD or HIRED SWORDS and burn your copy of Nitobe. In fact I would go so far as to recommend that people invest in Draeger's three book set and forget about HAGAKURA. Now you still have to be selective. For instance, I would not recommend SECRETS OF THE SAMURAI by the late Oscar Ratti to anyone either--- through I love his drawings!

If you absolutely, positvely HAVE TO HAVE Tokugawa material on the mindset of the Japanese warrior single out a particular individual such as MINAMOTO Musashi (BOOK OF FIVE RINGS), YAGYU Munenori (LIFE-GIVING SWORD) or SATO Hiroaki (SWORD AND THE MIND) and be content with the fact that you are getting a view of a subject solely through a single individual's perspective.

Of course this is just my opinion. As always YMMV.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Feryk
3/12/2007 5:05pm,
Has anybody ever thought that during the the Tokugawa period and other times when war was not going on that some Over paid Samurai bored out of their minds decided to make life interesting and created some martial arts which were complete BS and focused on ettiquette and prettyness. Then hundreds of years later people started studying them and saying they were proven on the battlefield?There is no F##*ing way I would be trying to use empty handed techniques in a medieval battle.I mean seriously how much time did these guys have on their hands to make some of this stuff up? I don't know how much they drank back then but you dont see near as much arts coming out of Europe, probably beacause back then ,they were drunk and whoreing it as they are still doing today!While The samurai were writing books on how to make tea and arrange flowers.:laughing8

I know Asians have a long time frame mindset, but 500 years to pull a practical joke is a bit extreme, wouldn't you say?

Camus
3/12/2007 5:09pm,
Great thread, sir

Either way, it wouldn't matter as the samurai never had to fight anyone with any real fighting ability (ie: not each other, koreans and maybe some chinese)

tenchu27
3/12/2007 7:18pm,
I guess they never did have to fight anyone else other than the obvious.Everybody probably did the lunge punch and stand there waiting while they got hurt routine.Im really starting to think that some of these guys really took themselves too seriously and made everything way to artsy to be practical.Look at some of the chinese styles and how elaborate they are, and think of the influence over to the Japanese over time.

Think about this too,there were formal head viewings to ensure that the people presenting heads of dead enemy had actually decapatitated the enemy in battle.This came about because some people showed up at the battle, cut of some corpses head and fled,presenting the head as proof of service and demanded payment.