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Fantasy Warrior
2/24/2007 1:46pm,
Look at the pic and read the commentry that the Go Kan Ryu karate instructor has added. It's a good example of what can happen when people trying to make up bunkai to justify their kata also happen to be unworldly.
http://www.gkrkarate.org/pages/Kata/essays/saifal.html
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4881/gkrkata1rs8.jpg

Now it may be that the Go Kan Ryu instructor is underqualified, or it may be that kata bunkai is inherently unrealistic, or both.

I know I'm preaching to the chior when I suggest that an alive training environment would soon put a stop to such rediculous training, but I guess that's not how karate makes its money.

So what other examples of people making up and believing plainly unrealistic or inplausible bunkai can you find and what can we learn from their stupidity?

Slipster
2/24/2007 2:13pm,
Now it may be that the Go Kan Ryu instructor is underqualified, or it may be that kata bunkai is inherently unrealistic, or both. Correct.

Slipster
2/24/2007 2:22pm,
In the Korean styles that I have studied (TKD, Tang Soo Do, Han Mu Do), bunkai was barely touched on, aside from the intent of the more obvious techniques. The discovery of the hidden meaning behind the more subtle gestures of the Hyungs was non-existant. I think they understood kata and its bunkai to be pointless in a realistic setting but they tought the kata anyways.

Abusivemelon
2/24/2007 2:26pm,
So what other examples of people making up and believing plainly unrealistic or inplausible bunkai can you find and what can we learn from their stupidity?

Shouldn't this be in YMAS?

Abusivemelon
2/24/2007 2:27pm,
There isnt any mention of you calling bullshit on any style or association within the martial arts.

Slipster
2/24/2007 2:30pm,
So what other examples of people making up and believing plainly unrealistic or inplausible bunkai can you find and what can we learn from their stupidity? The first thing that comes to mind is the speed-hitting techniques from Manabi Masho jujitsu.
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26642&highlight=manabi+masho
They rationalize their being able to hit someone 11 times a second with slow-motion bunkai that looks impressive when the attacker just stands there. Supposedly each attack is striking vital points, as they will gladly tell you. You are correct, alive training (which they don't do, too d34dly) would put an end to their misguided belief, IMO.

Elky
2/24/2007 2:33pm,
yadda yadda yadda GKR karate
You do know the reputation GKR karate have don't you?

Fantasy Warrior
2/24/2007 2:46pm,
There isnt any mention of you calling bullshit on any style or association within the martial arts.Thanks for the helpful pointers. I'm calling bullshit on the quest for secret techniques in kata, and the inevitable spreading of bullshidoism that goes with people sharing their silly bunkai with the internet. Worst of all is when it's instructors, as in the example I posted, sharing the bullshit.

As for Go Kan Ryu, no sorry, never heard of it.

Elky
2/24/2007 2:59pm,
As for Go Kan Ryu, no sorry, never heard of it.
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27150&highlight=knocking
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17917

DerAuslander
2/24/2007 4:01pm,
Here's a hint to tell good bunkai from bad bunkai.

Good bunkai is pretty much striking, judo throws, or jujutsu locks that can likely be trained alive if the krotty student understood such things.

Bad bunkai is...well...yeah, you'll know it when you see it.

xingyifa
2/24/2007 4:03pm,
I believe there was another threat titled "Go Kan ryu: the rape of karate" (or something like that) due to the way the romanji could be misunderstood to mean "rape"...

Nickeroon1987
2/24/2007 4:06pm,
Yeah, my karate instructor showed a couple of takedown defense techniques from bunkai. Against a proper shoot, they wouldn't work, but I can see them working against someone who drops level too early and doesn't know how to do a takedown correctly.

Anyways, where's the knee? All I see her doing is cupping his face.

Askari
2/24/2007 5:10pm,
Bad Bunkai:
http://www.kokondo.com/kata.html
http://www.kokondo.com/pin2buna.jpg

sochin101
2/24/2007 5:13pm,
There isnt any mention of you calling bullshit on any style or association within the martial arts.
GKR = bullshit is self-evident.
Carry on.

DerAuslander
2/24/2007 5:17pm,
Not only is that bad bunkai, but it's wrong.

People in Okinawa didn't get into barfights any different than people do in the bar I work at. Any combat applications would reflect this. Any sort of explanation that requires you to take a posture that just doesn't make sense

In the picture above, why the hell would you cock your free hand like that. Any strike you can throw from that position can be thrown from a better position.

Thus, any application that would just have that arm up in that position is wrong.

sempaiman
2/24/2007 5:43pm,
Bunkai = Bullshit; If you are C coder