Was the 500 press ups/sit ups all in one go, or were you allowed an hour to complete all 1000 moves?

This is hard - from Crossfit a couple of weeks ago

Wednesday 070314
For time:
30 Handstand push-ups
10 Pull-ups
20 Handstand push-ups
20 Pull-ups
10 Handstand push-ups
30 Pull-ups

Takes about 8 minutes if you're good/ 20 if you're not

Not dissing - I just don't see the point in doing 500 press ups in an hour....

sure, keep drinking the kool aid. enjoy

Again, I already attested to the fact that we have tested everything we do in real scenarios. Nothing to drink, and you still fail to actually respond to my points, which makes me assume that you can't.

The devastating blow to the knee of which you speak is actually legal in most MMA events.

Am I missing where are all the fights ended via "destroyed knee by kick" are recorded? Am I overlooking the huge list of fighters who are rehabbing their destroyed knees from such events?

Jason,

Leaving aside the debate about the pros and cons of the techniques you advocate...

I cannot fathom why you cannot post a video - if you have one student that is enough to show us a demo. This could dispel a lost of the questions/doubts others are expressing about the validity of your style and training methodlogy

The devastating blow to the knee of which you speak is actually legal in most MMA events.

Am I missing where are all the fights ended via "destroyed knee by kick" are recorded? Am I overlooking the huge list of fighters who are rehabbing their destroyed knees from such events?

That's a good point. I don't know why more fighters don't kick out each other's ACLs. 2 guesses: 1) some sort of gentlemen's conduct, since such injuries tend to ruin careers 2) (more plausible) there is so much Muy Thai in MMA that they become impractical in such situations.

Jason,

Leaving aside the debate about the pros and cons of the techniques you advocate...

I cannot fathom why you cannot post a video - if you have one student that is enough to show us a demo. This could dispel a lost of the questions/doubts others are expressing about the validity of your style and training methodlogy

Well, what type of video do you want. In regards to the multi-man, I have already commented on getting a video up to KempoFist in this thread.

As for other videos (me and one student) ask what you want and I'll do it, besides destroy his knee, hospitalize him, etc.

LOL - I was looking forward to seing someone maimed as well!

I was thinking along the lines of a few tech demos, maybe some sparring-type thingy. Non of it is "proof absolute" but it is an easier way to get a flavour of what you are about

I don't know why more fighters don't kick out each other's ACLs...(more plausible) there is so much Muy Thai in MMA that they become impractical in such situations.
Explain, please? Does Muay Thai negate such an attack?

LOL - I was looking forward to seing someone maimed as well!

I was thinking along the lines of a few tech demos, maybe some sparring-type thingy. Non of it is "proof absolute" but it is an easier way to get a flavour of what you are about

That's easy enough, just need to find a video camera somewhere (I think UNC's campus has some ones I can rent out for a day or three). I'll try and put some sparring up (me and one of my students), and maybe a punch counter/combo done at varying levels of "aliveness."

Jason, you know that I've had my doubts about any multi-man training, and I was going to reserve my opinions until the video was posted so I could make informed comments based on what actually takes place, but judging by the turn of events in this thread, I feel there is some things that can be said now.

I understand why you would be defensive of the concept of striking/breaking the knee, because if that were to be true and a viable technique, well then fighting multiple people wouldn't be so hard (assuming they didn't kick your knees of course). Being able to dispatch a slew of opponents with such simplistic maneuvers could be a great tool, and would add a lot of credibility to your drills which would simulate these strikes "live." Unfortunately this is not the case, and I fear that when I finally do see this video I will see mostly standup sparring with people falling back as they are kicked near their legs/groin and lots of shoving of semi-compliant people who stopped fighting back hard after getting clocked in the face into oncoming attackers.

This is mere speculation on my part, but this is often the case of what I see when I schools attempt defenses against multiple attackers, and I really couldn't imagine you or your school dreaming up something that revolutionary that it hasn't been done before.

I'll leave you with this. My newest phrase I've coined, which serves as the base for why I feel training for multiple foes is fairly a futile goal. "You may be right that my grappling training doesn't account for multiple attackers, but your multiple attacker training doesn't account for grappling" Take that as you will.

Right...

Seems like you give up because I have:

1) countered your point regarding groin strikes, since you can train it
2) attested to my personal experience with eye strikes
3) attested to my instructors and peers experiences with striking the knees.
4) attested to the fact in WHKD, we do indeed go out and test what we teach people.

more like i thought i would sit back, grab some popcorn and wait for other people to more eloquently lay out my arguments again.... since you weren't listening to me.

look, it worked!

I don't feel like hashing this out again, but I went through this on MAP with Wado (another Kaju guy I believe, perhaps WHKD) and no the knee is not an easy thing to break fighting. Here is my post that everyone seemed to agree upon....

Our discussion spans from page 18 to 20 on this issue.
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64753&page=18&pp=15&highlight=knee

I disagree. My gut instinct when a kick comes near my leg is to knee check
http://www.usadojo.com/images/thaibox1smlopt.jpg

I cover up top and raise my knee to my elbow thus removing any chance of me getting struck where I'm REALLY worried (the outer thigh). Enough strikes to the thigh by a proficient kicker and I may not be able to stand.

I've had people go to kick my knee, and I can tell you that I never keep my leg planted. This takes zero training, because it is instinctual. I've said countless times to Kempo people I know who insist on the utility of the side kick to the knee, that unless your opponent has his foot caught in a bear trap, you're not doing anything to a knee. And even then, a simple pivot of the foot, pointing the knee bent into the strike will nullify any serious damage, and on the off-chance may cause him to spike the arch of his foot on the point of your knee :D

Wado is Kaju but not WHKD. I agree completely that trained fighters instictively raise their knee. However, I have sparred many untrained people, and can easy hit them on the knee (full speed light/no contact). Most untrained people can't avoid the strikes. Also, it is a short range technique, and doesn't work without some form of setup, ie I would never just attack the knee without attacking other things as well.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wun+hop+kuen+do&search=Search

That is the German demo team. A small portion of us compete in tournaments, etc, but it isn't representative of the art as a whole. Rather tournament "stuff" is a small portion of the art that a few people do.

Jason, you know that I've had my doubts about any multi-man training, and I was going to reserve my opinions until the video was posted so I could make informed comments based on what actually takes place, but judging by the turn of events in this thread, I feel there is some things that can be said now.

I understand why you would be defensive of the concept of striking/breaking the knee, because if that were to be true and a viable technique, well then fighting multiple people wouldn't be so hard (assuming they didn't kick your knees of course). Being able to dispatch a slew of opponents with such simplistic maneuvers could be a great tool, and would add a lot of credibility to your drills which would simulate these strikes "live." Unfortunately this is not the case, and I fear that when I finally do see this video I will see mostly standup sparring with people falling back as they are kicked near their legs/groin and lots of shoving of semi-compliant people who stopped fighting back hard after getting clocked in the face into oncoming attackers.

This is mere speculation on my part, but this is often the case of what I see when I schools attempt defenses against multiple attackers, and I really couldn't imagine you or your school dreaming up something that revolutionary that it hasn't been done before.

I'll leave you with this. My newest phrase I've coined, which serves as the base for why I feel training for multiple foes is fairly a futile goal. "You may be right that my grappling training doesn't account for multiple attackers, but your multiple attacker training doesn't account for grappling" Take that as you will.

I understand your fears, and yes when lower belts first learn these drills, the people are semi-compliant. However, beyond that point, people aren't compliant, and only stop if, at full contact, they would have been stopped by what I did. Typically, an opponent goes down after a couple of good shots to the head and a groin kick (sometimes a kick to the knee, but more often the groin). And, we actually hit people in the nuts--nothing "close" about it. I don't know many people who will (without pausing for a good 15 seconds) keep attacking after you have broken their nose, rocked them (or KOed them), and kicked them in the balls. I am sure they exist, but they are rare. I don't see how someone who "stopped fighting back hard after getting clocked in the face" isn't realistic. Maybe they won't stop forever, but they will for a few minutes. Secondly, once people can manage the stand-up decently, we include grappling. I have been taken to the ground quite a few times in these drills. Sometimes I "win", sometimes I don't.


As for the revolutionary bit, go read a bit of history on Al Dacascos. He is considered a visionary in practical martial arts, so you may be a bit surprised. But get testaments from people who have trained with him, not websites about his tournament history (he competed to spread the reputation of the art in the 60s and 70s).

Also, as for a viable, easy to use technique, eye pokes definitely count.

I have a simple solution for Sifu Jason- post some video of you competing in Sanda/Sanshou matches from the past. I know you can't attack the knees, but at least we would have a good representation of how devastating your system is in relation to trained fighters.

I missed this. I am trying to figure out why Wado, who does KAJU doesn't have the same skillset as you who do KAJU. Other than adding a Chinese influence, WHKD is the same as the rest of us Kaju people.

Not exactly. WHKD emphasizes adaptation more than most Kaju, along with several other signficant differences.