Actually yes.

You are splitting hairs.

XMA=/=Wushu=/=CMA yet they all practice forms. Now what you've done is blur these lines in your definitions.

There are performance forms, training forms, balance forms, and drilling forms. Yes, entire forms that are drills.

Okay, but are these "sets" that you're speaking of as extensive as the forms shown within the video?

yes...

Okay, in order to clarify what from what, I’ve described “forms” as what everyone already knows them as…katas (in Japanese, of course). Such as White Crane Form, or Lohan Form; I try not to use the word “set” for forms because it tends to blur the lines and ends up creating BS through the semantic confusion.

Obviously we know what drills are. A concentrated set of movements in order to develop a skill. Like a push up drill, a pad drill (for accuracy, rhythm and or defense) or even a sprinting drill. But from everyone’s experience (or from mine), “drills” are usually much shorter as they’re concentrating on a very specific technique/skill of some sort.

Forms are choreographed movements imitating the scenario of a fight. Obviously some forms may contain smaller methods that can be broken up into drills or were drills at one time. But the form is obviously much longer in comparison and eventually changes from a drill and into a choreographed demonstration (especially with two people).


Gaaargh, I hope I’m not talking in circles here.
Does anyone get what I’m saying here?


No....

Actually yes.

You are splitting hairs.

XMA=/=Wushu=/=CMA yet they all practice forms. Now what you've done is blur these lines in your definitions.

There are performance forms, training forms, balance forms, and drilling forms. Yes, entire forms that are drills.
Really, so does this mean that the relation of forms in TMAs or in say MMAs are relatively the same?

You need to flesh that comment out a little more.

I'm not falling for the bait.

Omega, can we get a description of these two man sets?

You need to flesh that comment out a little more.

I'm not falling for the bait.

Okay, if I’m “splitting hairs” as was said, then my description of forms should be negligible from drills in Boxing or MMA training. If they’re relatively the same, then would be it be out of line to describe the drills in MMA gyms as forms just as well?

For instance, have you seen the “fireman drill” in Miletich camp? They hoist a partner on their shoulders or on their back and run laps around the gym. This is one of their drills. However, considering that I’ve described what a FORM is and what a drill is, apparently I’m splitting hairs as they’re not very different. So would you say that this is one of Miletich’s forms and that there are indeed Forms in Boxing and MMA training overall?

There are performance forms, training forms, balance forms, and drilling forms. Yes, entire forms that are drills.
This is very true. As an example, most of you have heard of "Tam Tui" This is a drill form and an endurance set. It is designed to be drilled.

I say yes. I am not well versed on MMA training but Shadow boxing is indeed forms.

When you stop using "my" in your definitions we may get somewhere.

"Your" definitions are not laws.

You are sounding very arrogant at this point.

You are trying to take the MMA model and put it into the CMA hole.

Square peg, round hole doesn't work.

2 man fighting sets have their very definate place.

It is a great way to introduce contact with a person that may be very timid or nervous.

It is a good way to see how certain techniques work in a controlled environement.

It allows training folk to get comfortable with contact within the group so hard contact can be done later without ego.

2 man forms, perhpas more so for the very close in-fighting systems, these forms allow for a conditioned muscle response which is very valuable.

When you stop using "my" in your definitions we may get somewhere.

"Your" definitions are not laws.

You are sounding very arrogant at this point.

You are trying to take the MMA model and put it into the CMA hole.

Square peg, round hole doesn't work.

No I’m not, actually. I’m just waiting for your view on it.
Answer the question, please.

2 man fighting sets have their very definate place.

It is a great way to introduce contact with a person that may be very timid or nervous.

It is a good way to see how certain techniques work in a controlled environement.

It allows training folk to get comfortable with contact within the group so hard contact can be done later without ego.

2 man forms, perhpas more so for the very close in-fighting systems, these forms allow for a conditioned muscle response which is very valuable.

Point of confusion: alright, if these “sets, forms or drills” within CMAs are so valuable, then why aren’t they similarly used in Boxing, Kickboxing or MMA training? Something this valuable would obviously be effective for say, Floyd Mayweather or Mirko Filipovic. Don’t you think?

No I’m not, actually. I’m just waiting for your view on it.
Answer the question, please.
Actually, I did answer your questions here:
Okay, in order to clarify what from what, I’ve described “forms” as what everyone already knows them as…katas (in Japanese, of course). Such as White Crane Form, or Lohan Form; I try not to use the word “set” for forms because it tends to blur the lines and ends up creating BS through the semantic confusion.

Obviously we know what drills are. A concentrated set of movements in order to develop a skill. Like a push up drill, a pad drill (for accuracy, rhythm and or defense) or even a sprinting drill. But from everyone’s experience (or from mine), “drills” are usually much shorter as they’re concentrating on a very specific technique/skill of some sort.

Forms are choreographed movements imitating the scenario of a fight. Obviously some forms may contain smaller methods that can be broken up into drills or were drills at one time. But the form is obviously much longer in comparison and eventually changes from a drill and into a choreographed demonstration (especially with two people).
Hmmm........no mention of MMA.

This was my response:


There are performance forms, training forms, balance forms, and drilling forms. Yes, entire forms that are drills.

Now, you are trying to get a MMA=CMA training response out of me and you won't.

Are there similarities? Yes.

Does that mean they are equal and should be judged the same? No.

Hence, my square peg round hole reference.

Actually, I did answer your questions here:
Hmmm........no mention of MMA.

This was my response:



Now, you are trying to get a MMA=CMA training response out of me and you won't.

Are there similarities? Yes.

Does that mean they are equal and should be judged the same? No.

Hence, my square peg round hole reference.

So “performance forms” and “drilling forms” is an actual terminology in martial arts overall? With my description of the Miletich fireman’s drill, would you call this a “drilling form”?
Furthermore, why have I never heard of this “*insert prefix* form” terminology before in 13yrs.?

The philosophy of form.

N: Of which form?
Z: Of any.
N: It is indefinite!
Z: It is indefinite.
N: You have to define!
Z: It is of de~FINition itself.
N: How can it be "of definition itself"?!.. Definition is always OF SOMETHING!..
Z: To be "of something", it has first to be BY ITSELF.
N: It is difficult to understand…
Z: It is easy to understand:
Say, number "3" ("6", "4", "5") is for you, first, a number "itself by itself"?..
N: What do you mean?
Z: You don't ask me: "WHAT NAMELY" 3?.. "Three banana", "Three apples", "Three pencils"?..
N: It would be rather foolish to ask such a thing!
Z: Isn't it then foolish to ask such a thing about de~FINitions themselves?..
N: It is completely different matter!
Z: No, it's same kind of matter: for a non-civilized person on some "savage island" it would be uneasy to understand: how can be "simple three", and not "three of a something"…
N: Do you mean to say, this world is in some "savage state"?!..
Z: The world (consisting of such "savage states") is indeed in savage state, regarding its de~FINitions!
N: That's only because it "can't count" the "de~FINitions themselves in themselves", by their "pure form"?..
Z: That's because it does not see behind all of its savage wars a simple need for (self~)de~FINition(s)!

Hope this made the issue clearer.

Tomas