I felt this was an interesting discussion taking place in another thread. It was interesting to see Traditonalists take a sport fighter to task for a comment many of us continue to make.

This will be heavily moderated if it gets ridiculous.IIF






Slam implying you don't go down with the person.


???

Could you elaborate on this?

???

Could you elaborate on this?


A lot of times people talk about grappling and street defense with the impressoin that a grappler will automatically grab the guy and go to the ground looking for a sub or groaund and ppund. Grappling arts like Judo and wrestling have great throws. So if in a street situation I grab someone and hip toss them hard so they land badly on the pavment they're on the ground and I am still standing.

that's all I meant.

A lot of times people talk about grappling and street defense with the impressoin that a grappler will automatically grab the guy and go to the ground looking for a sub or groaund and ppund. Grappling arts like Judo and wrestling have great throws. So if in a street situation I grab someone and hip toss them hard so they land badly on the pavment they're on the ground and I am still standing.

that's all I meant.


Yeah, but if you hip-toss somebody you may hurt them, but probably not so terribly. If you intend to slam someone into the pavement in order to bring their day to a close, you are talking about a driving throw where you are very likely to be right there with them all the way down, ending in top position, not standing.

If we are talking about a one on one situation a good hip toss to the would stun a person enough to give you ample time to get the hell out of there.

Yeah, but if you hip-toss somebody you may hurt them, but probably not so terribly. If you intend to slam someone into the pavement in order to bring their day to a close, you are talking about a driving throw where you are very likely to be right there with them all the way down, ending in top position, not standing.

Most people don't know how to fall. so I would say a hip toss is enough. Or look at a good O soto / leg reap

If I want to be malacious I can drive my hand under their chin as I throw them. And I don;t need to follow them down.

That's all 'maybe' and 'if they land wrong' stuff. If you want to be sure, you're gonna have to make sure, and what the heck is the great fear of so much as touching the ground that one would need to 'plan' to avoid it like boiling lava anyway?

Why go to the ground if you don't have to.

I gaurantee you I can throw someone well enough to stun them, remain standing and kick'em in the gut if I have to.

I can also fight off the ground but choosing to do so when not neseccary in self defense situation is dumb.

I have dabbled in groundfighting enough to know that I dont know:)

I say that because the little I chose to learn was not so I could take someone to the ground and dominate them, it was so that if _I was taken to the ground, i would not be completely clueless and lost, being able to defend against your average person who knew nothing on the ground.


It is the sportsman trained in groundfight that would take someone to the ground in a real life confrontation. Just as his buddy grabs the chair....

But I dont think you can say that all groundfighters can only defend in a 1v1 situation. Even with that, you DO fight like you train, right?

From what little I know of groundfighting, I would rather be the one taken down and have to deal with it then to be the person taking down and be blind to the rest of my surroundings.

I have dabbled in groundfighting enough to know that I dont know:)
.

So forgive me for asking, but why post?

Forgive MY hidden passive aggressive as well and look at the title of the thread:

Kung Fu Training Time & Difficulty

Or perhaps read the rest of the post instead of cutting snippets out when all I was trying to express is that I am not an expert at groundfighting and dont have much experience.

But by the same token, I dont have to eat a lot of **** to realize I dont want to eat ****.

Why go to the ground if you don't have to..


Was there a sale at Cliches-R-Us?



I gaurantee you I can throw someone well enough to stun them, remain standing and kick'em in the gut if I have to.


That's an odd thing to say. Wouldn't that depend on who you were throwing and about a million other factors?

From what little I know of groundfighting, I would rather be the one taken down and have to deal with it then to be the person taking down and be blind to the rest of my surroundings.



Why do you assume you would automatically become "blind" to your surroundings?

Was there a sale at Cliches-R-Us?





That's an odd thing to say. Wouldn't that depend on who you were throwing and about a million other factors?


You could say that about any martial art technique.

Yes if the person over 300 pounds I am not going to try any throw.

That's not the point however

A couple of thoughts (again no quote fest).

In regards to striking, I can see how "sloppy" may be bothersome as a term, and if you have another suggestion I would be willing to adopt it. However, I still feel my point that many MMA people have striking skills that are lacking stands. As you said, the new wave of MMA people are like GSP, who are good at everything, including striking.

As for self-defense, I am glad you agree that armbars in multi-man is a bad idea. As for throws, I have used those extensively in both practice and actual self-defense situations, and I agree they can be effective. However, if weapons or more than a few people are involved, throws can tie you up too much, and it still comes back to striking. Nothing ends a fight like a swift kick to the knee cap.

Interesting point Go-JU joe. I have really no experience really in grappling training. I do find it funny that everyone assumes a judo or BJJ player's whole life is to get to the ground. Yet, the ones I do know say that in certain situations it is a last resort.

You don't want to go to the ground in a bar. Yet, that is the automatic assumption.

Goju-jitsu has sport fighting and self defense training in it. We work techniques that you can compete with relative safty using and also practice other techniques that you can only practice through half speed drills.


The idea is that the sport training gives you the aggresivness, timing and intangables to make the damaging stuff you drill actually work.

Here's an example of me being dumb and learning a lesson the hard way.

While doing full sparing with take downs, throws, kicks and punches I thought I would be clever, pull gaurd and quickly go for a Kimura.

Instead I screwed up, the guy posted up from in my guard, and punched me in the head and when I rolled, and got RNC'd

Yes many people will tell you not to do that, however you fight as you train. That's why I think it is important to do sport grapplign or what ever with a full range.

Being a little pissed at my self the next guy I fought I went back to O'Soto and just threw him.

We also practice things like hip throws where the person holds on and tries to pull you down with them, and learn things like sticking your knee in to break there grip and to drop a knee in there gut to get back up.

I think one of the reasons non-grapplers assume we all just auto-matically roll on the ground is that's what you do in competition and what you see in youtube.