As stated before, I've practiced martial arts (karate, kung-fu, judo, bjj and boxing) for many years and consider myself a very well rounded fighter.

Recently, in my bjj class, our instructor invited an aikido master which he was working with, to teach us locks and throws while standing as well as some groundfighting application.

I was really impressed by many joint-locks and its subsequent throws. They were very easy to apply, required very little strenght and were very painful.

Now I'm puzled. After more than 15 years of hard training in very efficient martial arts (karate, kung-fu, judo, bjj and boxing) :

1) Have I missed Aikido/Aikijutsu/Japanese Jujutsu ?

2) Are they really effective, combat/street wise ?

3) Could it be true, as the aikido master said, that aikido is very effective after you have learned how to fight ? The aikido master was a instructor (not master, he emphasized this point) of Wing Chun before moving to aikido.

What BJJ school do you train at?

I only took entry-level Aikido, and I think most of the techniques I was taught wouldn't work against a resisting or experienced opponent. But some of the high-ranking Aikidoka I've seen in demonstration have used more effective throws and locks with great skill.

From what I've seen of Aikido, I don't see how any of the locks or throws could be applied against a competent attacker. How the hell can you apply a wrist lock against a boxer? It's hard enough to get a two-on-one as it is, but a two-on-one on the wrist? As they punch?

The wrist lock a boxer reply is not valid, that is why there are so many techniques. Not all attackers are trained Boxers or Martial Artists. that is like saying BJJ is not good because it can't stop me when I shoot you with my 9mm. You train to respond to what is brought to you. You strike a boxer until your chance to take him to the ground comes then he is not in his world anymore, I think the Gracies call it taking some skin.

What doesn't kill me is dead when I'm through with it.

I'm on my club's summer course this week, and we've got a guy over from the Czech Republic teaching us some Aikido moves. He's a self defence instructor for the police over there, and actually uses these techniques in his job against violent criminals, so they do work. I understand there is some difference between the different styles of Aikido, some being more practical than others (he's a 4'th dan in Yoshinkan).

We've also had a guest instructor from a JJJ school showing us some stuff, but I have to say the Aikido seems more effective and easier to apply from what I've seen.

aikido attaching techniques dont just grab your wrist. they blend in and exert force on multiple joints or control points at angle which are difficult to resist.

it teaches how to recieve and redirect momentum, in a similiar manner to chinese IMA. it has a very high resemblance to pakuachang. is it jujutsu with 'enhanced' helical spirals.

peace.

<marquee>REDANTKUNTAO</marquee>
<marquee> INDONESIAN GUNG FU</marquee>

PeedeeShaolin,

Here you come again, with all you BJJ knowledge. But this time, at least answer the questions that are directed to you .....

I train in Brasilia (capital of Brazil) with Joao Roque, 2nd place in the last world championship, losing to Alexandre "Pequeno".

1) Who do YOU train with ?
2) For how long ?
3) Did you get someone to translate my last message to you ?

I am waiting for you answers this time ...

Why is your handle Neuro?

Why is your handle Neuro?


????????

From what I've seen of Aikido, I don't see how any of the locks or throws could be applied against a competent attacker. How the hell can you apply a wrist lock against a boxer? It's hard enough to get a two-on-one as it is, but a two-on-one on the wrist? As they punch?




One thing to keep in mind about aikido/aikijutsu is that many of the joint locks and throws seem to be soft and done with compliance on the part of the training partner. This is helpful to learn the shape of the technique. In a real life/death confrontation, there would be no twisty wristy joint lock compelling an attacker to sit down on the ground. A step off the line of the attack and if a lead hand is an available target -- snap goes the wrist. The entering throw (irimi nage) that looks like a gentle clothsline becomes a neck snap. According to traditional aikido philosophy, this should not be done, but according to Survival 101, it's good to live to train another day.

Atemi-waza (body strike methods) is something that isn't taught in every school, but I find to be critical in understanding how to practically apply aikido in real world situations. If you strike at me and I try and blend with your attack, then apply a joint lock, you're likely going to either hit me with your other hand, grapple, or do any number of other unpleasant things if I can't take your balance immediately. If you strike at me and as I blend, I strike at your eyes, throat or groin, your reaction to that strike will be more likely to give me the opening I need to seize your balance and then apply a joint-lock or throw. The key here is that I perform atemi with the intention to do you harm. If you block, by that time I've moved on to the next move. If you don't, I've done damage and may have still created the opening for the next move.

I agree that aikido/aikijutsu if very much worth learning after you have a base in striking, grappling or preferably both. The principles of blending, redirection and footwork will complement your stand-up game and help your body placement on the ground. If it's your only style, I think it would take years and years to become good enough to effectively apply it in a real confrontation, but this is probably more dependent on the individual studying the art.

Ueshiba Morihei, the founder of modern aikido, studied many different styles of jujutsu, kenjutsu (sword) and spear-fighting. So, in a way, he got a strong base elsewhere and took what were, to him, the most important principles of the very warlike styles he'd studied, as well as his religious influences, to create an art which he believed would help unite people. Separating all the mythological stuff around him (I don't believe in deifying founders), I believe there were many who challenged him to prove that his style was martially effective, as well as testimonials from Jigoro Kano (founder of judo) among others.

I'm not really out to convince anyone of anything and I apologize if I sound too like a public service announcement, but as a practitioner of different striking and grappling styles that finds aikido to be a very usefully practical art in modern society, I just wanted to give some more information, rather than spouting a basic 'aikido rulezzzz!!' type of bombast. I know that it works well for me, at this stage of my life and I love the training. Is it going to make me the next MMA champion or the most deadly street fighter on the continent? Most likely . . . no. Do I think teaches sounds principles of self-defense and complements any existing training I might have had? Yup.

Best/Budd

Well first of all I only asked you where you trained.

Secondly, you're lying about placing 2nd in the worlds against Paqueno.

Troll.

You fool nobody with your bullshit, least of all me.

"The wrist lock a boxer reply is not valid, that is why there are so many techniques. Not all attackers are trained Boxers or Martial Artists. that is like saying BJJ is not good because it can't stop me when I shoot you with my 9mm. You train to respond to what is brought to you. You strike a boxer until your chance to take him to the ground comes then he is not in his world anymore, I think the Gracies call it taking some skin."

MMA Phil you really do bore me, do you not understand (even with MMA in your handle) that you can learn something from all arts?
it's just this ignorant **** that pisses me off


Budd-good post
an old aikido guy i used to train with says you need 8 years in aikido to be good, way too much time for me
(see my thread "is aikido effective?")

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

"One pressure point application I like is the knife to the balls." Posted by deus ex machina August 05 2003

Sure, of course you can learn something from all arts. Not necessarily useful in fighting though. I wasn't even rubbishing Aikido, having never studied it, I just stated what my opinion was from what I've seen of it.

So what then? Do you ask them if they are going to be boxing today before they throw a punch? Get them to warm up and then take notes?

For what it's worth, I think that Aikido could be effective on a high level, since many of it's moves resemble Wrestling - sort of. All of the Aikido that I've seen however, looks like it would be of little use against a competent fighter.

If I bore you PizDoff then don't comment on any of my posts and I won't comment on any of yours.

PeedeeShaolin,

Here you come again, with all you BJJ knowledge. But this time, at least answer the questions that are directed to you .....




Jesus, it's a simple fucking question dude. Sometimes a question is just a question. Why you jumping down Peedee's throat?

Official WTDude Badass Evil Genius

"Why you jumping down Peedee's throat?"
hehhehe

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

"One pressure point application I like is the knife to the balls." Posted by deus ex machina August 05 2003