Can anyone here who knows about koryu state for the record exactly which of Hatsumi's 9 schools are in fact recognised as being genuine. Isn't there a long standing controversy about several of them? Especially the 3 ninjutsu schools.

Ninjew, you wrote that Koto Ryu is recognised by the koryu associations in Japan. I didn't know that. I thought that all of the 9 ryuha (except for Kukishinden Ryu and Takagi Yoshin Ryu) were in doubt.

Actually no. The 3 Ninjutsu ryu-ha are in doubt. The other 6 are legit, where the doubt come from is Hatusmi claims Grandmaster in them. He isn't the lineage Soke. If is Menkyo Kaiden and branch soke and uses as a based of the Bujinkan-ryu that he teaches now.

Have you read from the scrolls? I have read bits and pieces from 3 ryu ha from copies Soke gave out. The are EXTREMELY vague so teaching from them or not teaching from them, it does not really matter. The are just like notes anyone takes during training, they are there to remind you what the kata was about.
Also you seem to be vey ill informed about koryu and JMA. Stop posting about things you have only read about.


David, is a 10th dan in the Bujinkan are worked as a translator for the Bujinkan in Japan. I would answer him.

SHINBUSHI,

ok, your a 10th DAN in the bujinkan and you've been training for 20 years...

can you honestly say that there is not sufficient evidence to support that Togakure Ryu is Legit or not?

do you honestly think it was made up by Hatsumi/Takamatsu

this is nothing that hasnt been said by soke, this year, the first 2 weeks of february soke stated that none of these other people who claimed to have learned from takamatsu actually trained with him.

i will believe hatsumi's words, there is no evidence and i still have not been presented with any that sugests otherwise. and it does seem to make alot of sense.

Hatsumi teaches what he was tuaght from takamatsu to include his phylosophy.

do you think there are any other legit grandmasters who claim to teach what Takamatsu passed on?

my intentions are not to bicker back and forth and argue on this subject. if i saw anything that suggests otherwise or a fact or proof i'll admit i am wrong.

or do you think hatsumi is lying....

can you honestly say that there is not sufficient evidence to support that Togakure Ryu is Legit or not?
There has been no 3rd party documentation to authenticate that it is legitimate.
Which I could care less about as there is so little in that Ryuha compared with Kuki and Takagi.


this is nothing that hasnt been said by soke, this year, the first 2 weeks of february soke stated that none of these other people who claimed to have learned from takamatsu actually trained with him.
Depends who he is referring to. There is/was other Students of Takamatsu Sensei who have/had dojos in the Kansai area. Sean Askew went and trained with at least one I believe. There may be people falsely claiming they studied with Takamatsu Sensei, but there are also some who did.



Hatsumi teaches what he was tuaght from takamatsu to include his phylosophy.

do you think there are any other legit grandmasters who claim to teach what Takamatsu passed on?




or do you think hatsumi is lying....
Nope, I think he is teaching what Takamatsu Sensei taught him + his own experience. Now if Takamatsu pieced together Togakure Ryu or not we may never know. Again, I don't care. Now about who are the legitimate holders of some of the Fractured Ryuha, That gets into Japanese Bugei politics and is very messy and i won't touch that with a 10 foot pole.
BTW if you are in the Bujinkan if you don't want to follow Our Soke's name or his teachers name with Sensei, at least take the time to Capitalize it. It looks rude.

it is japanese culture and tradition for all students to train under

their teacher. you do not just leave... the soke provides the direction of that art


this is Japanese culture, custom and MA tradition.




...oh, brother.........

Not that this takes away from Hatsumi's legitimate inheritance from Takamatsu. Many koryu schools have a habit of choosing a successor who is not the most senior or the longest training or even the most skilled.


Why is that?

Something really bothered me with what Reptileddp posted about proof that some of these guys never trained with Takamatsu Sensei. They don't have photos with him. Oh no deary me.

Big deal dude.

I don't have photoes of myself with Sensei Jan de Jong when he used to come to the Ju Jutsu school I used to be a member of. Oh no, no photo no proof. In all honesty if I trained with, say Randy Couture, I would not want a photo with him, personally I would be imbarrised. In all the years of my own training I have never felt the need to get a photo taken of me with an instructor. It is like autographs, I do not care about them, it is the training that matters.

Photoes are for the fans.

Some people are focussed on training and learning from their Sensei.

CAPITAL LETTERS AT THE START OF EACH SENTENCE, and stop being blind to hero worship.

One last thing, perhaps there is an legimate reason for Tenamura Sensei not mentioning past ties with Hatsumi Sensei, such as these ties being cut....or whatever. At the very least he has the intention to teach solid basics so that his students etc can grow as Martial Artists. What Hatsumi Sensei does is good for himself and his looong term Japanese Shihan but that is because they have practiced the basics until they are coming out of their arse.

Phew, thats out,

David .C

You're arguing over a thread which was last discussed to any extent in 2007 ??

Jesus H Christ... Fucking ninjers

Sorry about that, I was not really paying attention to when the last post was made, just was annoyed with what ninjer fanboy was saying.

I most definently NOT a ninjer/boojer/LARPER, just a dumbarse who did not notice when a thread was made last.

I will pay more attention next time guys/girrrls. Once again, sorry about that,

David C

You're arguing over a thread which was last discussed to any extent in 2007 ??

Jesus H Christ... Fucking ninjers

It's still interesting topic.