start off asking prepared questions of the backwood low 90's IQ hyper religous christian

I find this to be extremely insulting. I am a definite Christian and have an IQ of 140.

I find this to be extremely insulting. I am a definite Christian and have an IQ of 140.
Woop de fuckin' doo

They were simply saying (about half a year ago) that the people teaching the "karate" had little knowledge about what they were actually teaching.

I don't think you or your 140 IQ would contend that there aren't stupid people, and some stupid people happen to be Christian.

Yeah Sasquatch I want to see the findings!

One parting word for Ronin.74 - If typing the words 'Karate For Christ' makes you shiver when you type it, it should.
Uh oh.

Beware the Chambered Punches that raineth as fire raineth'd on Sodom!

Edit: Ah dammit forgot this wasn't in YMAS. Sorry Mods.

I would and do contend that ther are stupid people. It just seems like it is normal and accepted that stupidity be associated with Christianity. I never hear low IQ's being associated with non-Christians, that's all.

I never hear low IQ's being associated with non-Christians, that's all.


That's only because you are not listening. While it may not describe you and rightly or wrongly, this character flaw is frequently an attributed problem associated with hyper-religious persons.

So what if my 10 yr old has a black belt and still gets raped by michael jackson, who do I blame, the school or god?

To answer Ronin.74, if you go to http://www.cmctaichiaustralia.net/cmcWebsites.htm or it's Taiwan affiliate www.37taichi.org.tw, you will see Shi Zhong Tia Chi (the 'de' is a grammatical issue, as is which word should come first). At the former website above, you will see many forms of Tai Chi listed.

As for Mr. Padrick's credentials, google Bill Wallce's name and you will only return 4 listings outside of his own website. 'Superfoot' was the greatest of his era, undefeated, with a kick clocked at over 60mph. Consider also that he did all that throwing only with his left foot. I have personally seen proof of Mr. Padrick's full-contact career, and at 300+ fights he did well for himself. May have not been a household word, but at that time, there was no pay-per-view, UFC, and the sport wasn't on the CBS WWofS agenda.

As to crumpy's assertions as to where Mr. Gilbert's belts came from and their legitimacy, I would like to know where he gets his information. None of his dan rankings were issued by Rod Sacharnoski or Zen Kokusai Soke Budo/Bugei Renmei of Okinawa/Japan. The latter recognized him only as Soke of Chutoku-ryu Karate, a Christian-ideals and Kempo/Shorin Ryu Karate (He holds shihan rankings in both - issue in Japan) based system he created. Based on Mr. Gilbert's personal credentials and the faitfulness of ideal and concept to the originating systems, this recognition is deserved. Though I will agree the source of this recognition is tainted and not without its own legitimacy questions. Obviously, crumpy, you have never set foot inside of his dojo. There you would see, mounted on the wall for all to see, all of his originial ranking certificates, issued in Japan, and easily verifiable with the issuing authorities.

It does disturb me, this trend for MMAer's to discredit traditional martial artists, who, after years of study and accomplishment, set out to create a style crafted for a certain group of people. Kind of sounds what MMA is all about. If Mr. Gilbert were the 'fake' or charlatan that you believe him to be, why would he take students and their parents to japan every year to meet his soke and those he learned from?

It is ever-so-easy to sit in front of a monitor, online, with the world at your fingertips, and 'research' people and events. It is another to get off your backside and go speak to people, see places, and get the truth. Imagine if someone saw the postings of anyone in this thread, or anyone on this site, and started making assumptions about your experience and credentials. I don't see any of you sitting for 'arm-chair' slander being hurled in your direction.

While I appreciate the intent of this site, as I see it to 'out' phonies, I believe one should be sure of the 'facts' they post before posting them. This prevents both the slander of an innocent person and maintains the credibility of the blogger and their site as well.

One parting word for Ronin.74 - If typing the words 'Karate For Christ' makes you shiver when you type it, it should. Does does that name David or the word 'Jericho' ring a bell?

You want to defend this organization? Good. This is the place to do it. Active defense makes for a more interesting discussion, with more facts to consider.

Please discuss, in greater detail, the "proof of Mr. Padrick's full-contact career" that you have "personally seen" and how you know that he had "300+ fights".

Please provide close-up photographs of all the rank certificates you claim to see on the wall at the school.

The rank certificate photographs will enable investigators to verify authenticity of the documentation, and discussion of the proof you have seen will shed some light on where else we might find some evidence of any official fight record.

Your assistance in clearing up this matter will be greatly appreciated.

:qgreenjum I'd like to see more documentation. As for the bible, I've read most of the Old Testament and nowhere did it say anything remotely connected to martial arts or any art of warfare as I could tell.

As both a martial arts enthusiast and a dirty godless heathen, I really want to see Sasquatch's report on Karate For Christ. I might also recomend praying for Ares to grant you strength before tapping out the Jesus-Jitsu class.

This is my first post. I recently (October) completed the Black belt curriculum at Karate for Christ. I am a law student, husband, and father of 5, so I don't mind debate; I am also military veteran, so I've been around the block in life for a while. Ask away. I have never seen the video on our website, but any other questions, go ahead.

You should watch the vid if it is available. Then you will know what people are talking about. I think the main criticism is that the notion that kids can fight adults is questionable.

That Genesis 14:14 quote doesn't tell me anything. All Abraham did was arm his servants who knew how to fight and go on campaigns to retrieve his brother back. It didn't state any specifics of MA techniques nor of any philosophies that are strongly part of the curriculum. It's easy to take that verse out of context. :eusa_naug

first day's lesson, often repeated, have the kids scream "HE"S NOT MY DADDY!!" and bite, pee your pants, make him drag you on the ground etc etc And this is the only God:

The Genesis 14 reference is used because of the inherent need during that time period (the Bronze age) for martial skills. Bronze weapons, due to the weak nature of the metal, could not be that long. People had to fight hand-to-hand proficiently.
Yes, true to the other comments, over time some traditions have solidified in regionally distant areas (however, this does not at all mean that they did not have a common ancestor). The comment is meant to suggest that much of early Western awareness of martial arts associates them with Asian religious philosophy; quite the contrary, many groups, including biblical groups, have needed to use them.
The "trained men" reference in Genesis along with other instances of physical prowess in the biblical material is also used to rebut the idea that Christianity is only a faith of pacifism. The opposite is true. We can be strong, fierce fighters in defense of ourselves or others.