[/URL]As many of you know TRS stands for Threat Response Systems, an enterprise that sells "Reality" Based Self Defense Tapes teaching you "the street deadly". Their talent consists of military and ex-military types, with some ex-cons thrown in. Yes, they were the people who produced Dan Webre's tapes! Anyway since I'm on their mailing list, they recently sent me an e-mail regarding one of their other prison fighters. One James Painter, who did his Federal time for possession of a sawed off shotgun.

Read the full article here on Bullshido.com: [URL="http://bullshido.com/articles/james-painter.html"]James Painter (http://bullshido.com/articles/james-painter.html)

Thankfully James hooked up with "Skip" -- an inmate who knew a secret fighting system that WORKED like crazy. He begged Skip for months before earning the “right” to learn this amazing "Rock N Roll" fighting system. And it saved his life.

How nice that the lifers politely waited many months for James to convince Skip to pass on these devestating secrets then train him adequately before acting on their decision to terminate him.

I think this demonstrates that prisons can make even the worst inmate more compassionate members of their society.

--J.D.

What I find odd is he received 37 months for an unregistered sawed-off shotgun. It seems to me like there must have some other circumstances surrounding the crime to get 37 months or perhaps there were some prior convictions.

As just a general observation this video by TRS (and the one by Dan Webre) appear to be based on the most purulent type of advertising... "Hey kids! Go to prison like this cool guy and you too can learn to fight!" I guess the next video by TRS will be by a serial killer telling you how to most efficiently dispose of a victim.

firit lesson get you something to work with

English please.

Not that there wasn't much more to the story, but 37 months for an unregistered SBS doesn't shock me. Maybe Samuel can shed some light.

The Feds don't screw around about that stuff. Short-barreled rifles/shotguns are one of BATFE's favorite charges and they are famous for pushing for max punishment regardless of circumstance. It's utterly ridiculous, but that's the way it is. The average person has no idea how many people are in federal prison for terms of years for violating some goofy firearms ordinance that the same average person couldn't imagine.

Some BATFE offices have sought and gotten convictions for possession of unregistered machine guns because the guns/parts the victims possessed could have been made into machine guns within one day given access to a standard machine shop! Just to be clear, the average machine shop could turn out dozens of machine guns per day starting from billet and bar stock.

This guy could easily have gone to prison for possession of one shotgun with an 18.75-inch barrel, or a shotgun with an overall length of 25.75 inches (people often forget that one!) Lots of people, too, remove the barrel and measure it, or measure it on the outside, from the front of the receiver to the muzzle. BATFE measures a dowel inserted into the barrel until it touches the bolt face (or breech face) which often takes an inch or two off the length of the barrel on a pump or semi-auto shotgun. So you measure your barrel at 18.5 inches, but your friendly neighborhood BATman sees it as 17.5 inches. Very few people understand this law.

Hell, he could even have gotten dinged for "constructive possession." If he ever owned, at the same time, both a too-short shotgun barrel (legal by itself) and a shotgun receiver of the same model (legal by itself) then BATFE would consider him to be in "constructive possession" of a sawed-off shotgun because, as a seething gun nut militia wacko, he could assemble such a weapon of mass destruction at any time.

Again, I don't know whether 37 months would be considered normal. But serious prison time is.

youy should make a thread documenting (as in a list) the crazy ass gun laws here. I know that this is available with a quick search or two, but to have one on BS would be pretty convenient.

Not that there wasn't much more to the story, but 37 months for an unregistered SBS doesn't shock me. Maybe Samuel can shed some light.

The Feds don't screw around about that stuff. Short-barreled rifles/shotguns are one of BATFE's favorite charges and they are famous for pushing for max punishment regardless of circumstance. It's utterly ridiculous, but that's the way it is. The average person has no idea how many people are in federal prison for terms of years for violating some goofy firearms ordinance that the same average person couldn't imagine.

Some BATFE offices have sought and gotten convictions for possession of unregistered machine guns because the guns/parts the victims possessed could have been made into machine guns within one day given access to a standard machine shop! Just to be clear, the average machine shop could turn out dozens of machine guns per day starting from billet and bar stock.

This guy could easily have gone to prison for possession of one shotgun with an 18.75-inch barrel, or a shotgun with an overall length of 25.75 inches (people often forget that one!) Lots of people, too, remove the barrel and measure it, or measure it on the outside, from the front of the receiver to the muzzle. BATFE measures a dowel inserted into the barrel until it touches the bolt face (or breech face) which often takes an inch or two off the length of the barrel on a pump or semi-auto shotgun. So you measure your barrel at 18.5 inches, but your friendly neighborhood BATman sees it as 17.5 inches. Very few people understand this law.

Hell, he could even have gotten dinged for "constructive possession." If he ever owned, at the same time, both a too-short shotgun barrel (legal by itself) and a shotgun receiver of the same model (legal by itself) then BATFE would consider him to be in "constructive possession" of a sawed-off shotgun because, as a seething gun nut militia wacko, he could assemble such a weapon of mass destruction at any time.

Again, I don't know whether 37 months would be considered normal. But serious prison time is.

The BATF is an incompetent and utterly corrupt agency.

I, for one, sleep sounder at night that people who are off by an inch are in prison. . . .

Think of the children. . . .

--J.D.

****....fed prison?

And another jailhouse/52 blocks thread gets put up.

Look, ya'all. I am a NYC jail guard....and as such - its jail > state system.
The fed system runs the gamut of soft to softer...as far as prison goes. Lots of white collar criminals overall. The fed system is more white collar to a few nasty fux who violated crossing state lines to commit felonies. State is more a type of local nasty - even the white collars are dirty and more are blue collar or wife beatewr wearing thuggy types --- and prosecuters often (if they are fixed on hammering an felon) work more on the state level than the federal. Different forms of incarceration.

Kungfools is right in many ways - the BATF is incompetant...corrupt though? They dont usually have the involvement to be as corrupt as local LEO agencies....but they are very reactionary and inept. Like the South Park 'robble, robble, robble responders'.
The whole Davidian action? They could have simply snagged up Koresh on his predictable trip into town on any Wednesday - and no children would have been collateral damage.

And they also could have netted Randy Johnson on a beer run.

Nope...not 'big enough' an action. And because of the incompetance..innocent people died.
Waco was wacko. Every action professional I have ever spoken to about Waco - shook their heads in dismay and disprespect for what should have been a relatively easy action use of force.

Anyway - - - - 2 thing before posting:

TRS has a certain place in the martial world - take it or leave it. In a martial world where glo-in-the-dark kama or 'chukka-stix' are pandered to the masses...and actual, real RBSD is sometimes taped (and sells poorly, its just not pretty enough to get the roses at the end of the show) - the parameters are wide. Buyer..beware!

I have seen some jailhouse rock and a few examples of 52 blocks -- and as I have previously stated in other thread - its a mix of a few thingsw:
"dirty fighting" (ie. bites, gouges, spitting and improvised weaponry - kinda like the basics of street figthing..like snapping a car antennae off and using it as a semi stiff cutting whipping weapon - or grabbing a handfull of dog **** off the blacktop and throwing it at an attacker...effective? Maybe! Martial? +Yeah! But then again you can take a fistful of change and toss it right into an attacers eyes...hell, I once resonded to a cutting on Rikers where the victim was bleading like a foutain - and the cutting weapon was a simple penny - dragged deeply into the forehad and eyeball tissue....and that is broadly a martial tool.

So, the 52/blocks and the jailhose rocks - have that...and also include crappy Saturday morning Kung Fu Theater video **** like basic backfists and 'slap boxing' - kids play on the streets - and now, a lil bit of choking and UFC low leg kix and elbows...oh, throw in some crappy boxing also!

Great...TRS forms an agreement with someone that can claim fed time..and learn the mish mosh of a 2 step away from WWE/UFC/ B.Lee/k-fu theater and street nasty - and 'once again' and new tape series is born. All about the benjies. Its the American way!

TRS does have some good stuff to offer....but EVERY offering suffers by the hype of the site owner.

It doesnt take a genius to know that w ell sharpend pencil can stab a neck deeply. Back in the late 80's - in the NYC and NYstate system..this was often the attack of choice by inmates. Is this martial art..is this interpersonal combatives..or just being savage?

I let the reader decide. But I will admit...if it was a pencils stab away from me going home in one piece....and maybe leaving an attacker with a soap in a sock clubbing weapon with a pencil stuck in his neck? I know what I would choose.

One more thing - NYC is very anti gun world. And there still stands a mandatory year ( ONE YEAR ) added to the use of a gun in a commission of a robbery or certain ther crimes. 37 months froa awed off is probably the punishment (in that jurisdiction) for modifying a firearm - along with a puntitive for using a weapon...and from what i have seen on my job...would be deemed excessive by the present NY criminal law outlines.

There is a VAST difference between State and Federal time served.....nature of the law beast. Unless your fed out on Ultra-Max..like Gotti or 'terrorists'....your can actually have horseback ridding and tennis in some fed lockups. State time? Much more nasty.

As the song goes: "Never steal anything small" and wear a white collar if you go criminal. You meet a better class of people. And few of them could quote UFC - they are much more IPO. Ask any jail guard..or state guard..and then compare to a fed guard...and you will see, overall - I am right.

Minimal (http://new.wavlist.com/movies/317/ofsp-advice.wav) Security Prison.

--J.D.

RobG,

I agree with you re. the TRS hype machine that is Bob Pierce. The best I can say for it is that he's still in business, so it obviously works.

I think we should distinguish between Painter's "Rock & Roll" fighting style and 52/JHR, though. I've seen some references connecting Rock & Roll to the Aryan Nation, White Power, etc. - maybe it's a reaction to/against 52.

Nope...not 'big enough' an action. And because of the incompetance..innocent people died.
Waco was wacko. Every action professional I have ever spoken to about Waco - shook their heads in dismay and disprespect for what should have been a relatively easy action use of force.

Let us not forget both FBI HRT and BATF were both incompetent agencies involved with not only Waco Texas, but Ruby Ridge with the murder of innocents.


TRS has a certain place in the martial world - take it or leave it. In a martial world where glo-in-the-dark kama or 'chukka-stix' are pandered to the masses...and actual, real RBSD is sometimes taped (and sells poorly, its just not pretty enough to get the roses at the end of the show) - the parameters are wide. Buyer..beware!

While Bullshido can point to individuals with questionable backgrounds hawking their expertise via TRS, Bullshido conveniently omits that there are reputable instructors that have worked with TRS -

Frank Cucci - Former SEAL Team Six member

Tom Carter - Former Delta Force member (Killed in Iraq while providing security for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)

Bennie Cooley - bio (http://www.benniecooley.com/biog.htm)

The broad brush Sam uses to disparage TRS as a whole is a bit deceptive and unfair as this supposed expose and others is being used to tarnish every instructor who was ever associated with TRS. I for one can say Cucci’s & Carter’s ’Delta/SEAL camp’ and Cooley’s ’Fighting Mindset 1 & 2’ are excellent educational materials (with the exception of Cucci’s kali stick fighting tape- complete crap). Until Sam has investigated the aforementioned materials, I don’t believe he and others at Bullshido can speak from a position of strength other than to engage in idle speculation.

Consider the analogy of ‘As seen on TV’ products, most are complete garbage and don’t work as promised. However, even with that being said, a small percentage of the products actually live up to their claims. The same parallels can be drawn to TRS materials.

I don't think anyone disputes the fact that TRS does have some gems. But most people prefer to have their gems set in precious metals and not giant piles of ****.

But make no mistake, TRS chose to market this product dishonestly. We are, first and foremost, a site dedicated to consumer protection. So if TRS, Royce Gracie, or the zombie of Mother Theresa markets a product or service dishonestly, it's our job to point out not only that specific instance, but an overall patern of such behavior if one exists.

"While Bullshido can point to individuals with questionable backgrounds hawking their expertise via TRS, Bullshido conveniently omits that there are reputable instructors that have worked with TRS -

Frank Cucci - Former SEAL Team Six member

Tom Carter - Former Delta Force member (Killed in Iraq while providing security for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)

Bennie Cooley - bio

The broad brush Sam uses to disparage TRS as a whole is a bit deceptive and unfair as this supposed expose and others is being used to tarnish every instructor who was ever associated with TRS. I for one can say Cucci’s & Carter’s ’Delta/SEAL camp’ and Cooley’s ’Fighting Mindset 1 & 2’ are excellent educational materials (with the exception of Cucci’s kali stick fighting tape- complete crap). Until Sam has investigated the aforementioned materials, I don’t believe he and others at Bullshido can speak from a position of strength other than to engage in idle speculation.

Consider the analogy of ‘As seen on TV’ products, most are complete garbage and don’t work as promised. However, even with that being said, a small percentage of the products actually live up to their claims. The same parallels can be drawn to TRS materials."

Since I don't want to spend a couple thousand dollars buying the entire TRS tape library for review, I will not say that all of TRS's products are crap. However almost all of them are subject to over the top, often deceptive advertising. (See the Webre example) Then I catch TRS in another lie as its trying to push its James Painter products So should one buy a TRS tape knowing that what they say in their ad, and what the truth is, may be totally different? I wouldn't risk my money that way and I don't think anyone else should unless you are able to independantly verify the background of any of their talent and obtain a report from an independant party concerning their teaching skills.

The idiot is responsible for what he sells.

--J.D.