> The problem here is you used an ABSOLUTE (ie ALL) All I have to do is name ONE that doesn't study BJJ, Wrestling, or sambo. (and yes they ARE OUT THERE!!!) To prove what I said is true.


Ok, on my side of the scale, top MMA fighters that do what I said they do for grappling (BJJ, wrestling or Sambo) off the top of my head I can call out these -
Coleman, Kerr, Bobish, Belfort, Silva, Sakuraba, Ortiz, Sperry, Nog, Nog II, Arona, Rua, Vov, Royce, Rickson, Renzo and the rest of the Gracies, Ruas, Taktarov, Severn, CroCop, Big Daddy Goodridge, Herring, Ricco, Erikson, Henderson, and so on.

Where are the mighty aikidoka squad members?


Whining in the "you said ABSOLUTE" manner is pointless splitting hairs, your last straw here.

NO top fighter of today became what he is without at least SOME BJJ, or at least the hybrid called "combat wrestling". They all do it.


Now give me a name of one successful fighter that knows jack **** about BJJ/wrestling/sambo.


> Then I will fire once and prove you wrong!!!


You mean you'll prove that MMA grapplers ARE very fond of aikido?

Good luck.


- Stipe -

>CroCop

Don't think I've heard of him. It the trainer of yor kickboxing coach, n'cest pas?


First person came to mind was

Jermaine Andre

He is a Japanese JJ player (remeber you said BJJ, splitting hair or not) but I think he is taking up Sambo as well. He IS found of AIKIDO and Japanese swordsmanship.

Haru Shimanishi is a KARATE KA (gasp) as well as Japanese JJ player. Former competitor now trainer, considered to be a top trainer.

Want more?

>You mean you'll prove that MMA grapplers ARE very fond of aikido?

No just prove your statement was false.




Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

Also Igor Vovchanchyn. He is mainly a kickboxer. I admit I don't know the extent of his grappling training.

Semmy Schilt, he does mainy Karate, kickboxing and pancrastion.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

MARVIN PERRY, got to thank a friend for mentioning him, He does KUNG FU and San Shou. I don't think he has ANY real grappling experience.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

> > CroCop

> Don't think I've heard of him. It the trainer of yor kickboxing coach, n'cest pas?


Eh. You never heard of him?
That is quite amazing :>


> >You mean you'll prove that MMA grapplers ARE very fond of aikido?

> No just prove your statement was false.


OK.
My statement is that no MMA fighter that people have actually heard of does aikido.
My statement is that ALL of the well known MMA fighters do BJJ / wrestling / Sambo things to learn their grappling.

Now prove me wrong.

> Semmy Schilt, he does mainy Karate, kickboxing and pancrastion.

For one thing, you need to look up what pancration is. For another, Semmy is in Golden Glory. He does what I said NHB fighters do.


> MARVIN PERRY, got to thank a friend for mentioning him, He does KUNG FU and San Shou. I don't think he has ANY real grappling experience.


... which pretty much explains why noone has ever heard of him.


> Jermaine Andre

> He is a Japanese JJ player (remeber you said BJJ, splitting hair or not) but I think he is taking up Sambo as well. He IS found of AIKIDO and Japanese swordsmanship.


"Fond of aikido", as in, doesn't brutally thrash it like the rest of MMA fighters whenever given the chance?
Dude, he is in Miletich Martial Arts. If you know who Pat Miletich is you'll know what he does there. Exactly what I said.


Listen, mate, you actually went that far to list a bunch of fighters that I'll BET most people here haven't even HEARD of here.
And you've done so in comparison to a list of ALL top fighters of this date!
This is getting pretty absurd, that is supposed to prove that aikido IS widespread and popular among MMA grapplers? Four guys, two of which are in well known associations that I'll bet got nothing to do with aikido and two more that never fought a NHB fight?

Why don't you just quit fighting such a hopeless case?


- Stipe -

Let me refresh your memory

>ALL MMA FIGHTERS do wrestling and BJJ; it may not be their main art, but they all DO IT, cause they know they HAVE TO if they want to keep on fighting.

This is what you said. I proved you wrong. Just admit it.

When you start soing MMA competing please let me know. So far all you come across as is an MAA Otaku with just tapes and dreams. Not a bad thing but still funny.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

I know what pankration is and have fought against pancrase players BUT you didn't list Pancrase now did you!!!!

I PROVED YOU WRONG!!! Be the mature man and admit it.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

Asia, I have heard of the fighters you mentioned & you did prove your point...
But, what do I know...am I just one of those "clumsy women"?? lol that Stipe mentioned??

Hey Stipe, I think the point that Asia was trying to make was...you leave yourself open if your going to make a statement like "ALL" mma do bjj/wrestling. Sure, most do & your right, I believe that to survive in Pride/UFC or any other big fight arena you need one or the other. However, even one name does prove your statement is too broad.

<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> Sam

>> >ALL MMA FIGHTERS do wrestling and BJJ; it may not be their main art, but they all DO IT, cause they know they HAVE TO if they want to keep on fighting.

> This is what you said. I proved you wrong. Just admit it.


Oh, you did, did you?
And you proved that to be wrong WHERE?

You mentioned two guys NOONE has ever HEARD of, and say "hey so and so does karate", and two guys that surely do BJJ and you claim that that proves ****?

Tell me what kind of a moron would it take NOT to do BJJ and try to enter MMA competition after seeing how it works on guys who don't know what an armbar is or how to behave when they get stuck in someone's guard?



All MMA fighters do wrestling, BJJ or Sambo.
If not before their first couple of bouts, they sure as hell will start afterwards. Or they'll keep on getting beaten up.

It is an undeniable FACT.



> Sure, most do & your right, I believe that to survive in Pride/UFC or any other big fight arena you need one or the other. However, even one name does prove your statement is too broad.


I don't think so, that depends on who fits in your definition of a "fighter".
A guy who gets beaten up repeatedly in MMA bouts is NOT what I had in mind when I said "MMA fighters".


- Stipe -

Ladies and Gentleman I present a man that can't admit he is wrong!!!

Obviously this guy know very little but talks big.

>You mentioned two guys NOONE has ever HEARD of, and say "hey so and so does karate", and two guys that surely do BJJ and you claim that that proves ****?

Here he proves he doesn't know as much of the MMA world but profess to know more about it than me or anyone I know!!! When is it VERY easy to fing out about all the pple I listed and competitons the foughtin. FYI MARVIN is VERY well known. I even took the time to look up your CROTIAN COP. I kow Ishii (If you don't know who he is then you are truly nothing but hot air) but I still wasn't familar with CroCop.

Stipe,

I see further dicussion with you it the TRUE WASTE!!

Your too stupid to even catch on. How in the hell can you vouch for ALL MMA you know them ALL personally right!!! Get a clue.


Get a life get some more REAL experience.



Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

> Here he proves he doesn't know as much of the MMA world but profess to know more about it than me or anyone I know!!!


Like that's much of a challenge.
Listen, chump, this is getting boring.
Either find a credible fighter that doesn't do wrestling, sambo or BJJ to prove me wrong, or shut the hell up.


> Your too stupid to even catch on. How in the hell can you vouch for ALL MMA you know them ALL personally right!!!


Cuz I know the type.
Cuz a guy who wants to do MMA will HAVE to do what I listed, or he'll just keep on getting beaten up in MMA bouts.


You see, after your local Joe Son Do "fighters" find out about MMA world and enter the average MMA tourney, they'll all get beaten up and wrecked by wrestlers / BJJers.
Some will bitch how "rules favour grapplers" and quit MMA for good, some will hardheadedly return believing what their sifu told them about fights and get themselves a shiny 0-4 score before they quit, and an odd fellow here or there will start doing wrestling / BJJ. And he's the ONLY one from that group that WILL score a win here or there.

And he deserves to be called a "MMA fighter". Others are a joke.


- Stipe -

Stipe,

You are trully a dumbass.

I gave you CREDIBLE FIGHTERS, research yourself and see what they have done. Oh I get it they don't show up on your Video collection so they don't count. Look KID, These guys are DOING what you DREAM OF!!!

Don't talk to me about MMA until YOU DO IT!!!

Better yet. If you want I will even set you up with a couple of fights, and if you whine about I'm in Crotia I will even help find inexpensive airfare. What do you say, poser? I know several promoters of such events.

I will even find a NON BJJ, SAMBO, Wrestling guy to fight you, already got one in mind. Hell I will even fight you and I will use aikdo just so you can try to have your fun, I will even offer $50 USD and buy the rounds at the bar afterwards IF you beat me!!! Come on what do you say.

Here is my email:

Asia_i@hushmail.com

Stop dreaming and DO!!! THIS IS A SERIOUS OFFER!

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!




Edited by - Asia on July 10 2002 11:23:25

Hi all
I am new here too.
I wouldn't have responded except I am practicing Aikido (albeit somewhat different then the common style).

stipe wrote:
"I already said it, people who aren't tough enough to do wrestling and women do aikido.
In an aikido dojo you can find skinny men, fat men, and clumsy women who train twice a week, and you are highly unlikely to find big strong men there.
Let alone NHB fighters."
Well, Sorry to surprise you stipe, most people are not professional athletes, nor NHB fighters. For some strange reason only a few people can dedicate themselves to such a career, most of them find it to be a very unhealthy way of life in the long run.
Most of the people in the M.A. world, wish to improve their self defense skills without harming their bodies, nor invest all their time to practice. I know, this may surprise you, but this is the adult world, outside your T.V.
It is true, it requires much more skill for a light woman to defend herself against a full grown male attacker, yet some have done this. Using soft underpowered Aikido, Tai-Chi and other TMA. Strangely enough, I don't hear you speak of many woman nor " skinny men" or "fat men" or perhaps, just common men of the common sort, who have done the same using ring type MMA.( I have heard of people whose M.A. training included Tai-Boxing .)
So, if you are talking about self defense for the common person, don't start writing about NHB nor Ultimate fighting they are irrelevant. It is the TMA that may give that average person a good solution for his problem.

Amir

All this MMA bull got into high gear when Bruce Lee started teaching about fluidity and effectiveness in styles. Unfortunately, Mr. Lee forgot to mention that you need at least an ounce of intelligence to do so.

Now we have MMA morons who don't find traditional techniques effective, so they claim these techniques are uesless. This is not streamlining the art, this is complacency and sheer stupidity at its highest and most loathsome degree.

Hey, symbol man or whatever you are called. Aikido is a great really practical art? Perhaps you should watch the video on this site entitled "Kung Fu Fighting" where you will see "o-sensei" Ueshiba knocking people down without touching them. he was a fake and I would like to see that crusty old man try that with anyone including Fred Ettish. Aikido may be fun but I think practical is a stretch.

Keith Hackney is a non BJJ, Sambo or Wrestler who did well in the UFC.