I like real ninjitsu because it;s an attempt at a fightign art, I don't, hwoever deem it to be effective because normal/real Ninjitsu has no full cotact sparring. Although there ar esoe systems, which are really "Self-made" which have sparring, but then they're not real ninjitsu...

"Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
"If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott (http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/displayfighter.cfm?fighterid=110)

Tai Jitsu Kwai is the unarmed technique of Ninjas. Ninjitsu as name encompasses the variety of techniques such as warfare and assasination etc...

There's a Tai Jitsu school in Dudley(UK) near the Merry Hill shopping mall, haven't been yet but I may do when i'm next in the area.

I like real ninjitsu because it;s an attempt at a fightign art, I don't, hwoever deem it to be effective because normal/real Ninjitsu has no full cotact sparring.

Depends on the dojo how much sparring is going on...

Tai Jitsu Kwai is the unarmed technique of Ninjas. Ninjitsu as name encompasses the variety of techniques such as warfare and assasination etc...


Right.

Most of the time that's what you learn when training in Ninjutsu today, the Taijutsu aspect of Ninjutsu. Including a couple of weapons, which is simply Taijutsu with something in your hands...

Kuroneko exactly.

"Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
"If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott (http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/displayfighter.cfm?fighterid=110)

A bit of history:

Forget the black pajamas, folks. That's right out of the Edo period. Or, perhaps more accurately, right out of the Japanese equivalent of Hollywood. Do scuba divers wear their frogman gear on the street? No? Then why should a professional sneak and assassin walk around advertising his career like that?

Remember that shinobi -- to give them the more common period form of the term -- were supposed to be master spies. How well concealed is someone walking around in a night suit in the middle of the day? If you are interested in doing a shinobi persona, and doing it right, there are a few things you will need to know.

First, you will dress like a normal Japanese person. Preferably a non-descript one. An itinerant priest. A commoner. A merchant, or a pilgrim. Maybe a low-ranking bushi. You would not be caught dead wearing a night suit, because in the real world that's exactly how you'd be caught in one. It may be an interesting exercise as an armourer to make a suit of padded and silenced shinobi mail armour, but when and where could you wear it? How could you use the nifty Iga army knife (to borrow a name from the Swiss) and maintain any semblance of "cover"?

Lurk, lurk, skulk, skulk.

It doesn't work that way.

You may be from either Iga or Koga (and, by the way, locals there prefer to say "Koka") if you want, but you should never ever fess up to being a shinobi no mono. People may wonder, but you should not make it obvious.

Never carry an arsenal of strange weapons or gear designed for sinister purposes. First, you could never use them (legally or politely, anyway) at an event, and second, you might as well wear a sign taped to your back -- or better yet, a sandwich sign-board -- saying "Shhhh. I'm a ninja. Don't tell anyone."

Give up being anything but really late period. Granted shinobi and their roots were earlier than the Edo period, but it's Edo that gives us all the really juicy ninja legends.

Do I have anything against shinobi? No, not really. Not if it's done right. But I've yet to see it done right. The trouble is, most of the literature on ninja in English is less than trustworthy, and much is the product of martial arts schools wanting to cash in on something more exotic and "cool" than karate or aikido.

One of the key things with shinobi is fitting in with one's surroundings. Given that the SCA is primarily a Western organization, what better way to disguise yourself than to dress like a European? I'm thinking of a particular shinobi who has a European name. He has rank, titles, and lots of friends. No one knows that deep down, his "real" persona is Japanese (he never dresses that way, how could they?) but considers himself Japanese, and a shinobi.

That is how you do a ninja.http://www.high-tech.com/panther/images/pinkblnkl.gif

Edited by - RealWorldSpy on June 11 2003 13:04:07

its amazin how no one ever listens and every ten post some one says, 'but in the movies they assasinate people so how come yata yata yata' ninpo/taijutsu etc is not how to run about with a shinny sword goin look at me i have real ultimate power!! fuckin hell how ignorant are some of you fucks (not most of you but just the ignorant!)end of the day tai jutsu people were learnin grapplin well back in the 80's when most of you if you were even alive then (that means you 12 year olds) were doin taekwondo from a bloke who once had a korean takeaway, and compared to the majority of trainin nowadays are still light years away from the truth.
you need to know how to hit, and grapple, have a tactical mind set, condition your body againt strikes and locks and the floor, bulid your total body strength, spar all ranges regularly and know how to avoid match fights etc and spark someone out before theve even realised theres a fight on.

ps koryu stuff is pretty damm good, which ryuha realworldspy, real ryu ha is hard tom find nowadays.....

Not to mention the training that I imagine they endure to condition their bodies to high limits of endurance,speed and strengh.
One of their major training was survival in the wildness, also how to detect the presense of possible enemy in the surrounds by the reactions of animals and insects. They were also skilled in weed(nooooo,don't take me wrong!!!)I'm talking about the use of differents herbs for medication to heal wounds and others as poisons to rub the edges of their weapons to use.
They were simply the combination of the modern spy that collect information( looks and acts as a common guy and most of the time is a common guy in a key position that is recluted by the Agency interested)and a Special Ops comand carrying a mission.

Kusa, most of the true ninjutsu ryu are extinct. I'm not an expert in this stuff but from what I had gathered there are some that claims authenticity and lineage, but proof of such has never been presented to the All Japan Budo Federation( I think that is the name)..the one that certifies all the authentic koryu(old traditional martial arts schools in Japan). Neither some scrolls of proof have been presented yet.
Read the 3 books of Meik Skoss for more information in traditional koryu in Japan.
I have nothing againts any schools of ninjas or Bujinkan, that is fine. Live and lets live.Unless is Ashida Kim,LOL!!!!
But claiming something that is not proved is another story.

RealworldSpy, yeah in the day they may of wore normal japanese cloths. But I highly doubt they walked into fortresses looking like commoner's. Doesn't work.
If it were only easy to dress like a commoner or a merchant and walk right in.
Some times you need to get out the black suit and scale the walls. It only makes sense.

"You know the good part about all those executions in Texas? Fewer Texans."-George Carlin

you guys clearly never seen any ninjutsu class or practitioner in action. Ninjutsu,ninjitsu,budo taijutsu, whether it's from Hatsumi(bujinkan),Manaka(jinenkan),Tanemura(genbuk an),(koga ryu)Ashida kim is BULLSHIT!! I have conducted a personal research on this martial art...I have a blackbelt myself in Bujinkan budo taijutsu.I was so fascinated in this art since I was a child, yes who doesn't want to be a NINJA???? but after a years of training, I was so dissapointed that I can't even beat my grandma if she had an umbrella in her hand!

Yes Ninjutsu is sadly categorized as "our art is too dangerous to spar with" martial art. The fullcontact movement at full speed is prohibited so you perform what so called waza(a technique) against someone who cooperated in a sloooow motion. Yes a few bujinkan schools allow sparring but suddenly all the taijutsu techniques are thrown out of the window, and they look like perform a combination of (bad)karate and wrestling!! there a few irrational techniques in ninjutsu as well like hitting the instep when the opponent is standing and shadow: move your instep under opponent's instep, its stupid technique for god sake!

the spiritual aspect of ninjutsu(or should I call it cult??) is also very dangerous to someone who is not mature enough(well half of the ninjutsu shihans are so immature!)


even the 10th dan Bujinkan Ninjutsu practitioner Alex Mordine said a bad thing about ninjutsu. Who is alex mordine ?

this article will answer who is alex mordine(from http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/exit_the_ninja.htm)

Green Beret in the U.S. army. Tenth-degree black belt in ninjutsu. Bodyguard to the rich and famous. That's the résumé of Alex Mordine, who heads a martial-arts school on a U.S. military base outside Tokyo when he's not facing off against paparazzi for celebrities such as British singer-songwriter Elton John.

Mordine left the military in 1991 after a high-octane stint in the Rangers during which he helped pioneer high-altitude, high-opening parachute jumps. "Those stunts you see in the James Bond movies--they got the ideas from us," he says.

He came to Japan that year with a burning desire to test his mettle as a ninja apprentice. He has since risen to the highest rank under master Masaaki Hatsumi and now uses his stealth skills to protect celebrities and well-heeled businessmen.


And here is an excerpt from the interview between him and realfighting magazine (www.realfighting.com/0702/mordineart.html):

Q
What is your martial arts background from childhood?

Alex
I got started in the martial arts because I got my butt kicked by about five guys when I was only ten years old. I first studied Judo. I have also studied karate, aikido, ninjutsu, iaido, and Gracie jiu-jitsu.

Q
Many people say that Ninjutsu in general is not a viable fighting style, do you agree?

Alex
Yes, there is a difference between martial arts and martial fighting. I compare Ninjutsu to Aikido. They are very similar in their teaching methods. Both styles avoid full contact and full retaliatory training. They both utilize methods of teaching where the Instructor is never at the same level as the students. They both use broken-rhythm in their training methods. In other words, the Instructor always looks good because, as he is teaching or demonstrating a technique, he frequently stops to talk about what he is doing, often adjusting himself to better his position, thereby breaking the rhythm of the movement, and the flow of the training.

Q
Making the instructor look invincible!

Alex
The Instructor inevitably looks great because he is controlling the entire technique. The student obliges the Instructor as he is teaching and the outcome is that the Instructor looks even better. The students are conditioned to respond to the Instructor's movement, literally assisting the technique, making the Instructor's movement flawless in front of the other students.

When the students try to do the same technique, they cannot do it as well as the Instructor because they're trying to do the technique in real time. If the opponent were to fight back, the technique wouldn't work. When it comes down to whether or not the technique works in an all-out-fight, the answer then is "no."

Q
Because there's no real-life application?

Alex
There is no sparring involved. There is no "will it work on the street" test involved in many styles of martial arts, ninjutsu being one of them. This is all a part of the smoke that clouds the martial arts, puts Instructors on a pedestal, and gives practitioners a false sense of security. Those who have only done this type of training and consider themselves to be fighters are gravely mistaken. They have been highly misinformed and their egos have got the best of them.

Q
So the problem isn't the style, it's with the individual instructors

Alex
Nobody cares what one practices in the martial arts. Practice whatever makes you happy. Problems arise when an Instructor stands in front of a group of people and tells them "what I teach you will save your life in a real fight" without ever having tested it. It's even more criminal when they stand in front of a group of women and tell them "this best way to defend yourself in a sexual assault - scratch the guys eyes, pull his hair, bite him, or grab his fingers. None of this crap will work in a real attack. It will just piss-off the attacker and he will beat her even more severely. This is the real tragedy.

I remember once at a demo when a high-ranking martial arts Instructor told me that a great technique to use for a woman when attacked in the kitchen is to grab a plate, break it in half, and use the two pieces as two knives against her assailant! Out of respect and manners I refrained from laughing in his face. This kind of stuff is actually being taught to women. There were two sixteen-year old girls present who practice BJJ on a regular basis who had to leave because they started giggling at what this guy was saying.

Q
Some people say they study ninjutsu, aikido, and various other arts because they provide spiritual fulfilment; but it really seems more like cult behaviour to me.

Alex
Yes, there are many cults out there offering false spiritual fulfilment. Eventually, as one progresses in the martial arts, one will come across one or more of these cults. As an example, one cult that I am familiar with is known for its spiritual aspects that center on warriorship. The hype that comes with martial arts only serves to obscure the truth and promote this garbage. This is because martial arts are empowering and many people seek to increase not only their physical and emotional sides, but also their spiritual beings. My real concern is with educating those already involved with these cults and to help those not already involved with this crap to avoid it. My heart goes out to them and I am willing to talk to any one about this at any time. And yes, I am a subject matter expert on this because I was once a member of one of these warriorship cults, and all it did for me was lead me down the wrong path. This stuff will eventually lead to your destruction.

Take martial arts for what it is, not for what you want it to be. Beware of false prophets, for there are many. They will come at you with all kinds of well-dressed goodies. Remember, if they were to come at you with things easily recognized as evil, very few would be interested. People can easily see through the full lie. It is very difficult to see through what they offer because it is mixed with the truth, obscured from the full truth, and is so empowering. The question you need to constantly ask yourself is, "where is this power coming from?" When dealing with spiritualism it can only come from one of two sources. You then need to ask your self, "why am I doing this and who do I glorify by what I am doing?" Also, ask the one who approaches you this question, "Whom do you serve?" Remember this, if you want to be a true warrior then I recommend you begin by reading the Bible. You will find all the answers you need on warriorship in the Bible.



ok to make ninjutsu even worst, check www.ninjutsu.com, there you will be a certified ninjutsu warrior in 3 years at your pace at home!!and the certificate will be signed by Masaaki Hatsumi himself!!
enough said!

maasaaki hatsumi, the grandmaster of hardcore capitalism.

I also like ninjitsu, because every next lamer who "studies it" gives us all a basic rundown of the first few pages (THAT AREN'T STUCK TOGETHER) of any stephen hayes book which they quote from.

That was my point since the beginning. ninjas were simple spies,recluted among low class and were not to trust, they will sell themselves to the higher bidder. About the dark outfit, yes, at night(camouflage, of course)to enter a castle o fortress. Their task: gather information and/or kill an enemy but without that fancy ninja movements: a stab from behind, a cut at the throath, also from behind , a poisoned dart, some kind of stuff like that.Take the myth out of a low assassin. If you will have to compare a ninja with someone today it will be a mafia soldier or hitman.



Edited by - RealWorldSpy on June 13 2003 09:21:38

ive already checked out the koryu.com side of things a couple of years ago years ago, i also practise some koryu jujutsu arts as well under the kokusai jujutsu remnei, people tend to forget that takamatsu was famous as a koryu soke when he was alive he kept the ninpo secret from most.
The main problem with bujinkan etc is that there are some who belive the basic practise can make you invincible, you need to spar and actually fight to be able to fight, problem is when it gets rule bound technique changes for the rules, look at boxin etc.
you need to train intensly with contact,
from the interview.... well the guy said the problem with bujinkan is lack of sparring and hard trainin, simple, train harder and spar differnt formats, kihon kempo kumite jiyu kumite, randori etc
just train more.......