Since switching to a vertical fist about 4 years ago I have noticed that I break my hand less often. Prior to that I sustained several knuckle fractures and a bennet fracture of the thumb along with a broken wrist. I have noticed no decrease in punching power with the vertical fist but find that I throw hooks less often.

In addition to this I find the vertical fist makes switching to the clinch easier and find I am on the inside more often when it comes to clinch striking.

My primary striking delivery system is a slightly modified western boxing approach with some elements of wing chun added. Has anyone else had any experiences with the vertical fist and if so what are your thoughts?

Why would a vertical first keep you from throwing hooks? Hooks are the only punch where my fist is vertical.

I prefer a vertical fist, it feels more natural. A horizontal fist sorta makes my skeletal positioning feel a little out of place. I feel I can punch faster with a vertical fist and my body movement feels more easily versatile. But then again, I haven't been training alive standup for some-time... and I'm a Bruce Lee nutrider!

Why would a vertical first keep you from throwing hooks? Hooks are the only punch where my fist is vertical.


Correct. Vertical for short range hook, horizontal for long range hook.



Prior to that I sustained several knuckle fractures and a bennet fracture of the thumb along with a broken wrist... (snip)... slightly modified western boxing approach

Then, honestly, you're doing it wrong. You're either not wearing proper protective gear (wraps + gloves) or your technique is sloppy. Actual damage like should only be happening in a fight, not in the gym unless you're screwing around.

I think you should train the way you fight.

I used to hit the makiwara with a horizontal fist all the time. I never broken my hand because i was hitting correctly.

Horizontal or Vertical correct form is the most important part.

Although I don't train the vertical fist in general everytime I give it a try I feel like the lack of a karate style "twist" really takes some of my power out of it.

Honestly, I think I'd feel like a tard throwing a vertical fisted punch. I'd have to actually force myself to punch like that so it would be the furthest thing from natural. The only reason I throw the hook like that is because 1. Bicept > forearm 2. I don't want to break fingers when I miss.

Also now that I stop and think about it... if you throw a vertical fisted cross or jab your basically asking to be hit in the face. Usually if your tucking your chin and throwing these punches your shoulder and arm give you coverage against getting punched in the face. Try a vertical fisted cross or cap and you'll notice you lose a good deal of the coverage usually given by the shoulder/arm.

Most boxers use the vertical hook.
http://images.google.com/images?q=boxing%20hook

I still get horizontal when I throw at the end of my range.


Also - this is really shitty. Don't do this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/furniture/in_depth/boxing/2001/blow_by_blow/hook.gif

I saw taught basically to hold your arm in one position (90deg angle roughly) and use your body to move the arm. Also, before you throw to lean the opposite shoulder forward a bit and duck a little (like you were dodging a blow sorta) and then twist your upperbody to throw the punch and pivot on your lead leg as well (for a lead hook).

Since switching to a vertical fist about 4 years ago I have noticed that I break my hand less often. Prior to that I sustained several knuckle fractures and a bennet fracture of the thumb along with a broken wrist. I have noticed no decrease in punching power with the vertical fist but find that I throw hooks less often.

In addition to this I find the vertical fist makes switching to the clinch easier and find I am on the inside more often when it comes to clinch striking.

My primary striking delivery system is a slightly modified western boxing approach with some elements of wing chun added. Has anyone else had any experiences with the vertical fist and if so what are your thoughts?


As I mentioned to you in another thread, my personal opinion is you stopped breaking your hand because someone finally got through to you it's a horrible idea not to have a tight fist and also when to substitute an open palm instead.

You can get away with either one.

I know you think that Tom. I used to hit the bag bare fisted or with only light gloves before I started Chinese MA and I did know how to form a tight fist through trial and error. For me I feel the vertical fist has made a difference in hand breaks.

Pirate John, you have your hook punches exactly the wrong way around. I take it you have not trained long? Most boxers throw a tight hook to the jaw using the horizontal fist and a fixed elbow and only a wide looping hook using the vertical fist. Body hooks are thrown with a vertical fist due to the mechanics of the positioning. Shovel hooks are thrown palm up.

I still throw hooks the boxing way because wing chun contributes nothing in this area. Hooks are a real risk to the hands.

PS I'm talking about glove free fights, not training.

Just a question, how often do you fight bare knuckle?

I used to hit the bag bare fisted or with only light gloves before I started Chinese MA and I did know how to form a tight fist through trial and error. For me I feel the vertical fist has made a difference in hand breaks.

I need to clarify this point. Are you saying that without any training you hit the heavy bag with a palm down fist and broke your hands multiple times? Then the first formal training you recieved was in a vertical fist and you stopped breaking your hands?

I find it interesting that you've hurt your hand in so many places. All of my bag work and alot of my sparring is done with only 4oz gloves and I've yet to do more then bruise my hand. In fact the only time I've ever hurt my hand was when I was 10yrs old and punched a heavy bag for the first time and didn't hit with my first 2 knuckles at all and jammed 3 fingers. I sense t3h d34dly in you...

No Whiteshark, I trained at a boxing club (Leith Victoria in Edinburgh) and used wraps and gloves habitually. I started hitting the heavy bag with light or no gloves when I started working the doors because I realised I was not forming a proper fist. I broke my hand hitting people in the head, not on a bag.

Shaolinz, I don't fight bare knuckle but when I was a doorman I had to hit guys fairly regularly in order to throw them out of the club. This was done bare handed to start with and I later started wearing leather gloves. I broke my hands several times during this period until I switched to a mostly vertical fist. I also started incorporating slaps.