I have sorta had a CMA craze resently and have been reading into them quiet a lot. It seems to me that the general grappling (standing and ground), tends to be a weak area.

Why do you think that the traditional CMA focus more on powerful striking rather than joint manipulations?

Ofcourse this may not be the case and I have no knowledge of CMA, in which case I apologise. :D

the CMAs do have some quite effective grappling systems. Check out Shuai-Chiao and Chin-Na

--A poor band player I was, but now I am crocodile king. --

Though each seems to exist as a seperate system, "shuaijiao" (throwing/wrestling) and "qinna" (locking etc.) are actually integral parts of most authentic Chinese systems. CMA focus less on groundwork insofar as they weren't developed as sports.

"Why do you think that the traditional CMA focus more on powerful striking rather than joint manipulations?"

that's a major misconception. many CMA are loaded with chinna applications.

peace.

" a cow doesnt whinny, and a horse has no udder, back is to the sides, and sideways is straight ahead"

>Why do you think that the traditional CMA focus more on powerful striking rather than joint manipulations?

CMA has tons of standing grappling and joint manipulation.

Ground work is there but not focused on. In the time when most of these arts were birthed there wasn't a need to work alot on the ground.

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!!
THE TRUE FIST OF THE NORTHSTAR!!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2657/hyaku.gif

I agree, good posts....

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

So why was ground work less of a priority?

"CMA focus less on groundwork insofar as they weren't developed as sports."


FYI there is groundwork in CMAs.

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

With all the horses, if you went to the ground, there's a good chance you would end up with **** on you.

only losers would dirty their silk robes on the ground!

flying techniques were developed in part to shake dirt off the clothes

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

Ah PizD I see you read the book on Chinese flying!!!

Kensai,

Ground has always been less of a priority in most MA. Most groundwork focused on taking the person down an controling him by lock or tying him up. War time ground could easily mean death EVEN if you were the one on top.

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!!
THE TRUE FIST OF THE NORTHSTAR!!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2657/hyaku.gif

I think XX is closest here... since the CMAs were developed by people looking for the quickest and most effective way to KILL their opponent, people didn't learn as much groundfighting. They still had plenty of groundwork, but more in the form of getting the opponent to the ground and then controlling or killing.. no guard, no mount (at least none of these things as we would recognize them today). There was no sport venue such as UFC in China, and no rules prohibiting what could and could not be used. After all, are you gonna try to go straight to the ground if your opponent is coming at you with a sword?

--A poor band player I was, but now I am crocodile king. --

So does CMA ground work vary a lot from say Judo or BJJ? I do have "Chinese Fast Wrestling" by Liang Shou Yu, is this sort of ground work common in CMA?

So would you say weapons influenced the amount of ground fighting?

So following that same line of thought, why would older Japanese arts like Kito ryu Jujutsu contain ground fighting even though weapons were widely used?

I would wager that most TMA don't like to wallow in groundwork because of the obviousness of the groin as a target for grabbing/ripping/etc. Which reminds me...although technically allowed in the early UFC, this was never done. For sportsmanship reasons, I guess.

A random thought--just how integral is qinna, you ask? In my system there's a slapping block called paishou (pak sao for wing chuners, I suppose). Two paishous together=armbar. One for the opp's wrist, one for elbow. One Hung Gar practitioner I know says that he trains this application religiously.

Of course. But do most grappling systems train with a view to protecting it? If we fight like we train...