If the primary purpose of your training is not to improve your fighting skills, you're not a Martial Artist. You're a hobbyist, LARPer, or tourist. It has to be defined this way because too many people lurk in the gray areas of the Martial Arts where they can exploit the ignorance of the general public so that they get the same respect and credibility given to people who actually fight, while avoiding it entirely.
I agree. But just because someone does Tae Bo or LARPs, that doesn't make them a piece of ****.


But who said there's a need for it to be accessible to everyone? Should it be accessible to someone who teaches, advocates, or trains in pure crap as valid self defense that's likely to get people killed in real situations? Should it be accessible to people who have no sincere intent to learn how to fight, but desperately want to project the image of being able to do so?...

...It's not "two sides of the same coin". That's a false dichotomy you're trying to shoe-horn your perception of things into. Either you can fight, you can't fight and are learning how to do so correctly, or you can't fight and are learning crap. MAP espouses crap, embraces crap, and propagates crap.

And if you like wallowing in crap, hey, that's your choice man. Just don't try to blow smoke up our asses about it being a valid lifestyle choice, on par with not wallowing in crap.
I think you're being overly broad. I post in a few areas on MAP and I have learned a lot- Thaiboxing, Filipino Martial Arts, and especially Health and Fitness. Other areas are more exasperating. But many people there know what they are doing.

I was going to say that the false dichotomy is one between MAP and Bullshido. People at MAP do get worked up about being overly sensitive, but people here love to go on rampages about how awful a given technique/person sucks. Both are prone to excess in certain areas.

And, btw, who's blowing smoke anywere? All I said was that the meet wasn't as bad as the video made it seem, and that I don't like to train using unrealistic methods.

Also, I can't believe that no one has said anything about the bujikan session- I figured that even mentioning it would release the floodgates.

I agree. But just because someone does Tae Bo or LARPs, that doesn't make them a piece of ****.



It does when it makes Martial Arts look bad .

I'm not- if people want to do Aikido for the sense of community, the ability to meditate, or just as a time to recharge, then that is fine.
It really isn't fine its just tolerated.

The analogy I use is that a sword can cut a loaf of bread but thats not the purpose of the sword. If I told you to saddle up and go into battle with a breadknife then you'd think I was looney. Pple are using a bread knife as a sword and thinking its fine.

Thanks for the straight answer. Did he teach round kicks then and if so were they any good?
No, he didn't. I listened to a discussion between an MMAer and him, a JKD sifu. The MMA guy was trying to show how powerful and effective a thai roundhouse is, and the JKD guy said that it was ineffective because a straight low kick to the post leg would beat a thai roundhouse. I was shocked that this was even being defended, because it is completely wrong. The timing it would take to get a low kick in on a proper roundhouse is too tight- you'd have to be Bruce Lee to make it work.

No, he didn't. I listened to a discussion between an MMAer and him, a JKD sifu. The MMA guy was trying to show how powerful and effective a thai roundhouse is, and the JKD guy said that it was ineffective because a straight low kick to the post leg would beat a thai roundhouse. I was shocked that this was even being defended, because it is completely wrong. The timing it would take to get a low kick in on a proper roundhouse is too tight- you'd have to be Bruce Lee to make it work.
So they just talked about it rather than trying it out? ... only at MAP...

I've actually been working on a cross posted reply on this one (being that I'm active at both of these sites). Due to my teaching load, I haven't had time to finish it yet. However, I do want to touch on two things:

1. The FMA instructor was Steve Lamade. While I have not met Mr Lamade in person, I know of (or have met) his instructors. He's certified in San Miguel and studied Pekiti under a number of Gaje's original US students. Plus he's a student of Tom Bisio. While I can't speak to his specific teaching skills, I can say that the people he's learned from and are certified under don't have a reputation of being slouches. Further the "stick whirling" that he was demonstrating (note demonstrating) is pretty spot on for San Miguel's ranging and flow work. Based on his lineage, I will vouch for his ability to mix it up.

2. The Hapkido instructor is Chris LaCava. I know Chris. I've had the pleasure of working with and sparring with Chris (granted I'm not suggesting that I'm Asia, Omega, or any type of god of the fight...). I'm happy to defend his skills as a Martial Artist, an Instructor, and as someone who can use Hapkido in a sparring context.

I should also mention that I was supposed to instructor (along with my teacher) at this event, but was unable to due to professional commitments. So I was not in attendence.

Anyway, a longer response to follow that will most likely tick everyone off (not that there is much hope that anyone is really going to move from their entrenched positions on the issue of the video and related moding -- but at least, selfishly, I'll vent my spleen).

- Matt

note - this an any posting that follows is being made as an individual not as a representive of MAP or any other site (though there is no way of actually separating these things)

What do you think of MLeone's bit mate?

1. The FMA instructor was Steve Lamade. While I have not met Mr Lamade in person, I know of (or have met) his instructors. He's certified in San Miguel and studied Pekiti under a number of Gaje's original US students. Plus he's a student of Tom Bisio. While I can't speak to his specific teaching skills, I can say that the people he's learned from and are certified under don't have a reputation of being slouches. Further the "stick whirling" that he was demonstrating (note demonstrating) is pretty spot on for San Miguel's ranging and flow work. Based on his lineage, I will vouch for his ability to mix it up.
I agree 110%. Steve Lamade knows his stuff and has been working on, among other things, Pekiti Tirsia and San Miguel Escrima. I really enjoyed his seminar.

@kickcatcher

MLeone seemed to know what he is talking about, but I didn't go to his session because it conflicted w/the FMA session. I spoke with him for about 10 mins at one point and he seemed like he was a quality instructor. However, I don't have much experience grappling, so I'm probably not the best person to answer the question.

MLeone seemed to know what he is talking about, but I didn't go to his session because it conflicted w/the FMA session. I spoke with him for about 10 mins at one point and he seemed like he was a quality instructor. However, I don't have much experience grappling, so I'm probably not the best person to answer the question.
This is the guy who taught that cross-choke from UNDER mount and the arm lock escape to a rear naked choke right?

This is the guy who taught that cross-choke from UNDER mount and the arm lock escape to a rear naked choke right?
I don't know, for a few reasons:

(1) I don't have any idea what a "cross-choke from UNDER mount and the arm lock escape to a rear naked choke" is. None what-so-ever.
(2) My understanding wasn't that he was teaching it, but rather that two people were doing a technique incorrectly. You can't really fault him for that.

So, yeah, that's the same guy. But, like I said before- I'm probably not the best person to ask because I didn't actually roll with him or attend anything he taught.

This is the guy who taught that cross-choke from UNDER mount and the arm lock escape to a rear naked choke right?
He had this to say about it:

Greetings all,
That was me in the video.
The person doing the under cross choke was a student of mine and was doing that of her own accord. She has previous training prior to me. She did that on her own and it wasnt part of the demonstration

That was really to be done with a GI any ways.
So he says in one sentence "that's not my technique, its probably from another teacher" and then says it would be more appropriate if a gi were worn, seemingly ignoring the fact that the attacker was mounted. So is he for it or against it? If he is against it, why is it not being discussed honestly as a BS technique? This is the kind of stuff that get crapplers pummelled and broken. It seems irresponsible to ignore it.

It really isn't fine its just tolerated.
What about people who are more interested in the 'Art' aspect than the 'Martial' aspect? Do you think they should be allowed to train?

It really isn't fine its just tolerated.

The analogy I use is that a sword can cut a loaf of bread but thats not the purpose of the sword. If I told you to saddle up and go into battle with a breadknife then you'd think I was looney. Pple are using a bread knife as a sword and thinking its fine.
You've almost got it. The bread knife isn't actually being used, only praised for what certain people believe is its merits without actually putting it to the test.

What about people who are more interested in the 'Art' aspect than the 'Martial' aspect? Do you think they should be allowed to train?

Let them train, but they should consider themselves gymnasts or LARPers or something else and not martial artists.

What about people who are more interested in the 'Art' aspect than the 'Martial' aspect? Do you think they should be allowed to train?

That use of the word "art" is incorrect. The "arts" part of Martial Arts does not refer to creatively expressing your humanity. It means "skill set" along the lines of the Culinary Arts.

Anyone who seeks to find artistic merit in learning how to hurt people is generally either:

1. A sociopath.

or

2. A bullshitter trying to make fighting about everything but fighting.

Read this article:

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&file=viewarticle&id=203

So they just talked about it rather than trying it out? ... only at MAP...

My thoughts precisely. I just had a guy up at my school training with us that tried to pull something similar (you won't be able to shoot in and take my down because I'll strike you on the blackout point at the base of your skull which you leave exposed during a shoot). We talked about the theories for probably about 3 minutes, until I got frustrated and told him to stop theorizing and intellectualizing and just show me. So he told me to shoot and I just laughed at him. Like I'm gonna just dip my head forward while he's completely expecting it and let him sprawl or hit me. I instead went to punch him in the face, and panicked put his hands up, and I shot in and took him down.