True enough, I do not speak for small. The statement about the Toronto TD is based on what I saw on video and in no way reflects small's comments or indicates that he came back to the club bragging or chest thumping. He simply is not like that.:thumbsup:

Hey Small.
I'm still a little confused over who's who in the zoo and I'm a nobody so don't pay me any heed. A co-worker of mine from London mentioned in passing that he was involved in the black arts socieity so my curiosity has the better of me.
I'll see if I can win him over to the true dark side :)


I'll just remind you that B was a beginner with 6 months training. I don't know exactly what happened -- it was a mistake for him to go without a witnessp
Down right out to lunch if you ask me. Someone should slap his pee pee. I'd really wonder what was going on in his head and question if some (if not more) of the fault rests on his instructors or the atmosphere of his dojo.

I don't see the point about Dojos or schools challanging each other. Well thats not true. I can understand a school wanting to defend their name because of how important that is but I would guess in many of these cases you'd get what we've head in this post. Wait here while we call our top student 3 time regional champion etc.. Basically he said she said.

I'm of the mind that a lot of whether or not someone wins comes down to the individual. While you can pit two top students against each other to see who wins I would think that the true measure of a school or style is how effective it is at teaching the lower common denominator, for lack of a better word. Take the average student and see how effective his lerning is.
A school might turn out one bad ass fighter but the rest of the students run into each other like a kids soccer game. Another school might not have any all stars but their students can handle themselves. I don't know, this is out of my lane, just trying to understand all of this.

Some people are nice guys in person at the TD's then they turn into creeps when they are online. That's not me.. so that is why I might be oversensitive.

I hope Oz hasn't offended other members indirectly when he brags me up -- he says things as he sees it from his point of view.

I do count him as a friend and he is an honest person.

GuiltySpark,

There should be a noticable progression for all students that work for it and a club should demand a standard from the students. If you train for a couple years with decent attendance you should be able to handle yourself, but your teacher should have enough experience to be able to continue your progression, otherwise what you have is a mcdojo.

Hey Ozz, if you claim were all such nice guys who exactly were you referring too with this statement “ and his nefarious clan” who exactly makes up this nefarious group of villains you referred too. We truly are a wicked bunch :icon_roll


Oh and Ryan Bowen is one of Gus’s oldest students and a proud member of the black arts society. Gus has been training him since he was in his early teen and he has a lot of respect for Gus and our club. He does run a club, which is one of our affiliates and teaches mixed martial arts. His groundwork is amazing and I wish I were half as good as he is in submission work and grappling

Small does Mikem train with you?

Nope, I'm a blackarts society member

If you train for a couple years with decent attendance you should be able to handle yourself, but your teacher should have enough experience to be able to continue your progression, otherwise what you have is a mcdojo.

Of course, the progession should be obvious.
Would you agree though that in order for a student to reach the upper levels of their martial arts capabilities, the students must take it upon themselves to train on their own? Visiting other schools and seeing what works, attending seminars, researching. Do a considerable about of self-training.
Basically go from learning martial arts to understanding it?

I agree Mr. Doucet some people at this site have a negative view of our organization because of the fact pressure points are a part of our curriculum. I know many view pressure points as a fringe area of martial arts and doubt their effectiveness. I also know a number of people lump us in with the likes of dillman. I can assure you our curriculum is nothing like George Dillmans. Pressure points are taught in conjunction with other striking technique and joint manipulation both standing and on the ground. There not the be all, end all and we don’t teach them as such. In fact they are a very small portion of our curriculum most of our time is spent working on striking technique and ground game.


A number of our students have joined our organization having already received a degree in another style if that person has anything to offer we gladly take the information and use it, incorporating it into our style, if its deemed effective. In fact that how b found your school, he showed an interest in Chinese martial arts and even though I doubt most of there antiquated techniques are effective I encourage him to pursue his interest and see if it was worth his while.


I’m sorry I can’t take you up on your offer to have a throw down on the beach in Ipperwash on the weekend. I have better ways to spend my Saturday then driving down to Ipperwash to prove something to you. We train two physicians in Ancaster on the weekends and that where we will be spending our Saturday morning. I’ll gladly pass the invitation along to some of our other member though, they may take you up on the offer.

Hello Bluto and Guiltyspark.

I'll just remind you that B was a beginner with 6 months training. I don't know exactly what happened -- it was a mistake for him to go without a witness and that is part of the reason that I went the second time. It doesn't really matter if they did the fox trot or the tango, B says one thing Mikem says something else... whatever.

So then which is it?

Did they dance or spar?

IF they did dance, then my comment stands.

IF NOT then I apologize.

Hey Ozz, if you claim were all such nice guys who exactly were you referring too with this statement “ and his nefarious clan” who exactly makes up this nefarious group of villains you referred too. We truly are a wicked bunch :icon_roll


Oh and Ryan Bowen is one of Gus’s oldest students and a proud member of the black arts society. Gus has been training him since he was in his early teen and he has a lot of respect for Gus and our club. He does run a club, which is one of our affiliates and teaches mixed martial arts. His groundwork is amazing and I wish I were half as good as he is in submission work and grappling

Hey Mike M...instead of mincing words and trying to twist my statements around why don't you address the credibility of your Grandmaster and his five Black Belts? Of course you are loathe to do so because I am sure you have received all your 'qualifications' from Gus as well..what a joke.
This is a site dedicated to rooting out frauds in the MA. The Black Arts Society has been under scrutiny here before, long before I even became a member ( search function noob). Deal with the real issues or STFU.
If YOU have a personal problem with ME we can attend to it any time.

Ozz,I fail to see why you insist on trying to play the hard guy role..Is this the essence of what your kung fu club teaches ? It seems from what I've read in these posts that your fine club is attempting to validate itself and that is not the spirit of kung fu as far as I know..Does the CAACMA teach any internal spirit or has that been lost ?

Ozz,I fail to see why you insist on trying to play the hard guy role..Is this the essence of what your kung fu club teaches ? It seems from what I've read in these posts that your fine club is attempting to validate itself and that is not the spirit of kung fu as far as I know..Does the CAACMA teach any internal spirit or has that been lost ?
I am only responding to people and trying to unearth the BS ....I have better things to do than spend my time on here. You coming on here and stirring the pot ( as usual) doesn't make things any better.
Mike M is the one who came on here attacking me and digging up this old thread. I posted the details of our club's skirmish with them and now I am the bad guy?
I am standing up for myself and simply stating that if someone has a problem with me I will back up what I say. I have nothing to prove to anyone.
The mission of this site needs to be kept in mind - this is why this whole thing started - uncovering a bunch of bull. I have spoken to B and he will be coming on here to explain how he was deceived and had his money basically stolen from him by the Black Arts Club That is what started this whole thing.
Our club does not need to validate itself. Gus is the one who needs to do that.
I may get a bit overzealous at times, but people who know me ( as you do) know what kind of person I am. I am a nice guy, but I don't take **** from people. I am irritated at having to waste my time on this BS.
If you want to know about where the club stands a far as 'internal spirit' or David Carradine- style Western horsehit you can read our webpage..

This really needs to end in a duel.

Gus is ranked 5th in Hapkido with the world kido federation which is the official governing body of Korean martial arts. He also hold a 5th degree in jujitsu with the Canadian jujitsu association.

I hope b does post on here. I still consider him a friend and would like to know why he thinks he was deceived and had his money stolen from him. I also would like to know if he felt this way before or after attending your school. Did he join your school thinking this or was this something planted in his head by your club and its members.

Oh and OZZ you didn’t answer my question you side stepped it by wrongfully accusing me of twisting your words.

OZZ in your own words you state that “Brett Butchart another guy who trained with Gus is a solid fighter –but he was a solid fighter YEARS before he ever knew Gus” This statement is 100% true. Brett was a very solid fighter before he meet Gus and he has only gotten better with his continued study with Gus and martial arts in general. But I have to ask you this, if Brett was a solid fighter before having meet Gus wouldn’t he be able to pick out the bullshit if it existed? And why would some one who was such a decent fighter waste his time and money training with us if Gus had nothing to offer him.