Lots o kung-fu and some karate people love to talk about short power, the way it's done in taiji. It has principles and everything.

But the thing is, it's almost never really used.

Shovel hooks, on the other hand follow many the principles of short power and they work really damn well!

Yet most(not all) of my fellow TMA people dont consider it the same; they even look down on hooks themselves!

But if anything, it seems like the application of short power to me; the real use for it seems to be the shovel hook.


Is my line of thinking correct?

I only know a little bit about short power, but if they're talking short power they should DEFINITELY include shovel hooks. To not do so is ignorant and silly.

Sock 'em in the fucking liver and see how their chi reacts.

Serious though; my sensei teaching me shovel hooks mad me realize that the hook was one of gods gifts to man.

Shovel hooks are great. I go close to my bag when I workout and practice throwing short hooks. Best for short range on par with your elbows.

Are there any specific setups to work with when doing them? For instance, just out of a clinch, etc.

I love hooks so much, because 99% of non-kyokushin karateka never train them, because they're "easy to block", and "sloppy". Kiai!!

Kareteka hold their hands at their waste. Lets not talk about them anymore. Hooks are a great way to make power and shovel hooks are great because of the odd angle.

I love hooks so much, because 99% of non-kyokushin karateka never train them, because they're "easy to block", and "sloppy". Kiai!!

Shitos are fun as **** too.

There are a lot of applications for Fa Li, or short power in striking. In a linear punch it comes as *pop* at the end of the strike. So the strike itself doenst have to be short to utilize short power, it just needs coorinated explosion from legs, hips, back, shoulder, arm to rock at the right time. this could be from close range w/o traveling far to target, or the explosive jolt at the end of a long range strike. It is easier to get the feel of in something like a shovel-hook, it is harder to develop in something like a stiff jab or a cross. There is specialized training for it in certain CMA, but a boxer will be developing the same thing from a different perspective.

Kareteka hold their hands at their waste. Lets not talk about them anymore. Hooks are a great way to make power and shovel hooks are great because of the odd angle.

Not exactly.

Olympic Tae Kwon Do stylists spar with their hands at their waist because blocking a headkick with your hands is stupid...and they don't punch to the head. The stances are sideways because the back and leg aren't valid targets, and kicks are easier to pull off.

Kyokushin stylists usually keep their hands about chin/neck level, with their bodies squared towards their opponent. Almost like a mix of Shotokan and Muay Thai.

Shotokan stylists usually adopt the "Unslung Gun" stance, which involves a partial side stance with the lead hand pointed towards the face and the rear hand around the chest/stomach area. REALLY traditional Shotokan folks let their rear hand fall almost parallel to the ground at about the belt level...essentially keeping their rear hand about "Half Cocked".

Broad generalizations are bad.

Not exactly.

Olympic Tae Kwon Do stylists spar with their hands at their waist because blocking a headkick with your hands is stupid...and they don't punch to the head. The stances are sideways because the back and leg aren't valid targets, and kicks are easier to pull off.
This is exactly why Tae Kwon Do is stupid. Plus Im sure blocking a headkick with your hands/arms is not as stupid as...say...blocking it with your head. Also I dont think Tae Kwon Do has any Karateka but thanks for pointing out how stupid Tae Kwon Do is, it made me smile.


Kyokushin stylists usually keep their hands about chin/neck level, with their bodies squared towards their opponent. Almost like a mix of Shotokan and Muay Thai.
I have no qualms with Kyokushin. There ok by me.


Shotokan stylists usually adopt the "Unslung Gun" stance, which involves a partial side stance with the lead hand pointed towards the face and the rear hand around the chest/stomach area. REALLY traditional Shotokan folks let their rear hand fall almost parallel to the ground at about the belt level...essentially keeping their rear hand about "Half Cocked".
I dont know much about this style but the hand position doesnt seem to great to me. Im guessing from the description its basically keeping the lead up like a boxer and keeping the rear in a chamber at the belt/hip level?


Broad generalizations are bad.
No they make it easy to distinguish different things. Of course there will always be exceptions but that doesnt make generalizing bad. Its not good to twist a bears nipple. Now Im sure we can find one bear that enjoys the purple nurple and asks to be whipped, but that doesnt mean I should test each one to find out.

What exactly is a shovel hook? I do not know that english term, somebody able to help me out?

It's a variation on the uppercut, usually delivered to the body. It's not quite an uppercut, so it's considered a hook.

In CMA its usually called an 'Ox-Horn' punch. Same as what odacon is describing. You can get a lot of torque and short power into that strike.

I've always sucked at actually using these on people.

edit: I think my problem with them is, I try to be fairly loose with my punches and these seem to require tensing up to throw, so I can't really flow it in to my combos