Uchi - Komis, everybody does them as part of a judo class.
And although there are some benefits- practice unbalancing ( kuzushi), timing and dependent on the speed you get a cardio workout, it seems to me that the moves you practice in uchi-komi are quite unrealistic. When compared with a 'real' throw in randori or competition.

The partner is not defending, usually just follows on and 50% of the uchi - komi - that is moving out of the position is not helpful to learn how to throw.
Furthermore, it reminds me of a javelin thrower who never let's go of his javelin or a tennis player who practices his serve without doing the full movement.
Whilst I still use them to warm up, I will move away from using uchi komis too often and let my students practice throwing against a defending partner.

What do you think?
Are they too valuable to be left out?

It's important; I equate it to hitting focus mitts in kickboxing. As long as you are moving around you are working a set of skills that easily translate to working against resistance.

When I was in Judo we did Uchikomi to the point where we'd picked the person up or put them off balance, then stop the fall. Just doing the entry I can drill on my own against a wall.

I think that uchikomi has helped, to the point that the majority of the throw is rehearsed. We do about 15 min of uchikomi and then 45 mins of randori. I think that the uchikomi is a good warm up and good to rehearse the feeling of starting the throw.

I don't think is a waste and I feel that it is one of the most vital parts of throwing practice.

I wanted provoke some thought with the title of the thread.

I could argue that it is not part of the throwing practice at all - since you don't throw.
It is part of breaking balance and maybe lifting the partner.
The comparison with hitting mitts also appears limited - since you can do the full technique with 100% power and hit something when hitting a mitt.

In Uchi Komi you stop half way.
So, are they non- specific and do we just accept them as part of the traning because we have always done so??


I don't claim to have the answer to this question, neither do I want to convert you not to do them. BUt can we train more specific and do we overemphasise uchi komi?

I like uchi-komis, I think my coach was telling me they had fallen out of favor with a lot of schools out there because they were too static.

They are static , but you can make them dynamic to a degree.
For certain throws, they don't work very well - e.g. sumi gaeshi, or the diving techniques.
Plus - if you do them wrong , you can take up some bad habits, if nobody corrects you.
With a throw, you get better feedback, about the succes of the technique

Work well as progressive build up in resistance, as drills and as warmups.

Good practice of off balancing and positioning like Shuma-gorath said.
I think of it like a step on the progress ladder before sparring.

Don't really know if it's something that can be taken away without losing quality. My own experience is that it helps. There are many variables to throws and it's easier to isolate the off balancing and positioning to correct and feel it better when you're just doing uchi-komi than when you're completing the throw.
IMHO.

I think they are important. A good drill and can be used for conditioning. As long as that's not all you do.

I wanted provoke some thought with the title of the thread.

I could argue that it is not part of the throwing practice at all - since you don't throw.
It is part of breaking balance and maybe lifting the partner.But I would feel that you need to master and rehearse those two in order to master a throw. I'm quite a n00b besides that I'm a complete uncoordinated dork. Maybe Judoka with more experience may do away with uchi-komi. I don't think I could learn without it at all. :read:

It's like the drills I did at my prev. BJJ class. For the n00bs, most of the class was drilling and drilling the same passes, chokes and what-not ab-nauseum. Sometimes the person receiving the technique would be fully resisting, sometimes just 50%, sometimes we would exec it all the way, sometimes just pieces of it. Without that, I don't think uncoordinated n00bs like me could make any progress. :icon_cry:


The comparison with hitting mitts also appears limited - since you can do the full technique with 100% power and hit something when hitting a mitt.You may hit 100%, but you still don't have the worry of the mitts fighting back. Thus what you gain by executing the drill at 100% at will comes at a price of not doing it against a fully resisting opponent. So something gets compromised in order to maximize some other benefit... I think.

Disclaimer: I suck at judo

Uchikomi is a huge help to me. It trains entry to a throw, which is arguably the most important part (assuming that you dump the guy on his ass at the end). And since I still have relative noob status, decent throw entry is difficult for me during randori.

Specifically, moving uchikomi is the most helpful to me because you have to enter for the throw in a somewhat realistic way (not static). Also, it's good to be able work on combinations without getting thrown if my sweep wasn't perfect.

And, in response to the arguement that you're not practicing the throw as you would in randori, isn't the idea to improve your technique? The more you practice a throw (in realistic circumstances), the better your technique will get and the better you'll be able to perform it during randori.

Man, you have to do something before you actually throw some poor bastard, right?

Depends on the person and his experience.

Early on, uchi-komi is probably more important for learning the technique and acquiring a set of body skills that apply across multiple techniques. I like to start with solo drills and plyometrics to develop beginners confidence in basic movements, then progress up the ladder.

However, once a person's acquired a certain skill set, uchi-komi are of much less use; maybe for warmup. Nage-komi, grip fighting, situational drills are more important for an experienced player.

Depending on the throw the lift isn't always there.
But yes, you're thinking of the correct activity.

If we did nagekomi like uchikomi, I'd be able to go once a month.

Uchikomi are good for dynamic entry practice and to speed up the reflexive responses in your body. The goal is for the throw to be so rehearsed, it can be done without thinking. It can be done with nagekomi but you'll break your training partner with that many high reps and the force of the throws.

If we did nagekomi like uchikomi, I'd be able to go once a month.

Uchikomi are good for dynamic entry practice and to speed up the reflexive responses in your body. The goal is for the throw to be so rehearsed, it can be done without thinking. It can be done with nagekomi but you'll break your training partner with that many high reps and the force of the throws.

This is exactly how I feel about Uchikomi. When I learn a throw I need to rehearse the movement with high reps before my mind even considers using it in Randori.