My dear Boyd,

After such an eloquent introduction, can I do no less? My name actually is Darren. I have studied martial arts for a little over thirty years now. Twenty-three of which have been spent studying Isshin-ryu Karate. I have also dabbled in Aikido, Tai Chi, and Ju-jitsu.

Like you, I also spent some years at a (as you call it) a "comedy Isshin-ryu School" and I will not argue that they are not out there. In fact, I would say the 98% of the Isshin-ryu schools in this country teach pure unadulterated crap. Fortunately, I soon met a karate instructor who, will wonders never cease, actually knew karate. I was really pissed at first because basically, I had to unlearn everything I had learned and start all over again. But, boy, was it ever worth it!

And yes. I agree. It is the same old song and dance , isn't it. However, simply because so many instructors managed to learn all the proper buzz words, terminology, and catch phrases does not mean they actually put those ideas into practice. I would suspect that if you scratched a little deeper, you would find that though we may have spoken in the same terminology, we are very different in how we applied that terminology. I have personally had the disgracefull honor to have worked with some very high ranking Ishin-ryu people who wouldn't know a low block from an egg roll.

And, you are right. I haven't hit a heavy bag in years. Not since my instructor introduced me to the makiwara. I work that daily.

Many of the Isshin-ryu instructors I know use the encyclopedia analogy for Kata quite often and it is really quite a good one. The problem is that they have not seemed to have caught on to the fact that you must first open a book to study it.

I know of about a dozen instructors in this area who spout the term "body mechanics" as if the mere mention of the word would strike fear into the hearts of their enemies (Now, hows that for dramatic). However, they wouldn't know proper body mechanics if it came up and hammer-fisted them in the nose. (By the way, I think the hammer fist is about as worthless a technique as you can find ... way too forgiving!)

Long painful sequences are way too long and painful. I like fights to be over quick. Say, as soon as my opponent moves. I believe it was Choki Motobu who said that:

"One cannot use continuous attacks against true karate. This is because the blocks of karate make it impossible to launch a second attack. The blocking hand must be able to become the attacking hand in an instant. Blocking with one hand and then countering with the other is not true bujutsu. Real bujutsu presses forward and blocks and counters in the same motion."

Nothing slow about that concept! Painful maybe!

As far as my lineage, goes I will tell you if you want to know. I am a second generation Isshin-ryu karate student. My Sensei, Sherman Harrill, was a student of the system's founder, Tatsuo Shimabuku (who, by the way, would be greatly pissed off by what so many of his so-called students have done to his art in the interests of self-promotion). I am a 4th Degree Black Belt (thats Yondan in Isshin-ryu-ese) and will probably be one for the rest of my life because, quite frankly, there is not another instructor (with the exception perhaps of a few of of Sensei Harrill's other students) out there I know of that I would take a promotion from because they wouldn't know good karate if it stood squarely in front of them and kicked their ass.

It is really sort of funny, or ironic even. I actually stumbled on to this forum because of an old post of yours mentioning Sherman Harrill that came up in a google search I had made. I liked the "no bullshit" theme of this site, and thought I would give it a try. However, I have since found that the "no bullshit" theme is just that .... Bullshit!

Yours in Isshin-ryu,

Darren

You have got to be the weirdest troll I have seen on BS.

You agree with damn near everything Boyd said in his post. Then because of the "encyclopedia" remark you flip the **** out.

Are you a ninja? Ninja's are known to just flip out and kill random people.

My dear Boyd,

After such an eloquent introduction, can I do no less? My name actually is Darren. I have studied martial arts for a little over thirty years now. Twenty-three of which have been spent studying Isshin-ryu Karate. I have also dabbled in Aikido, Tai Chi, and Ju-jitsu.

Look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me
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And yes. I agree. It is the same old song and dance ,
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Look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me
Look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me
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Look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me
And, you are right. I haven't hit a heavy bag in years. Not since my instructor introduced me to the makiwara. I work that daily.

Many of the Isshin-ryu
Look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me
Look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me
Look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me
Look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at mestudy it.

I don't have to sparr i don't have to spar i dont have to spar, i dona have to spar!)I don't have to sparr i don't have to spar i dont have to spar, i dona have to spar!)
I don't have to sparr i don't have to spar i dont have to spar, i dona have to spar!)
I don't have to sparr i don't have to spar i dont have to spar, i dona have to spar!)
I don't have to sparr i don't have to spar i dont have to spar, i dona have to spar!)
I don't have to sparr i don't have to spar i dont have to spar, i dona have to spar!)
I don't have to sparr i don't have to spar i dont have to spar, i dona have to spar!)


Long painful sequences are way too long and painful. I like fights to be over quick. Say, as soon as my opponent moves. I believe it was Choki Motobu who said that:
IM so smart I'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smartI'm so smart

Nothing slow about that concept! Painful maybe!

As far as my lineage, I'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for realI'm for real
It is really sort of funny, or ironic even. I actually stumbled on to this forum because of an old post of yours mentioning Sherman Harrill that came up in a google search I had made. I liked the "no bullshit" theme of this site, and thought I would give it a try. However, I have since found that the "no bullshit" theme is just that .... Bullshit!

Yours in Isshin-ryu,

Darren


Welcome to bullshido!

"comedy Isshin-ryu School"


Oh yea...Its all comedy. Isshen-ryu was invented so that marines could leave the ilsand with a "black belt". sort of the first Okinawan Mcdojo.

Long painful sequences are way too long and painful. I like fights to be over quick. Say, as soon as my opponent moves. I believe it was Choki Motobu who said that:


So do you get KTFO much often then?

That sounds like an excellent way to train. What exactly do you mean by utilizing the movements and principles in the kata? Do you restrict yourself only to moves that can be found in your kata?

Sort of...

If you begin with the premise that there are only so many movements ( a finite number) that the human body can make and still remain in a relaxed, balanced, centered, and powerful state, then yes, we limit ourselves to movements that will not take us beyond that state. If we look at kata as a collection of "martial" movements that fit that criteria, then the answer is yes. I am not sure how many more ways the human body can move naturally which are not found in kata.

Of course, there are many ways to look at kata.

Kata movements adhere to principles of evasion, positioning, entering, up-setting the opponents balance, etc. Also proper posture, body mechanics, etc.

Welcome to bullshido!

So much for intelligent discussion

So do you get KTFO much often then?


KTFO? Sorry! You will have to forgive my ignorance. I am not up on all these snappy acronyms.

KTFO? Sorry! You will have to forgive my ignorance. I am not up on all these snappy acronyms.


"Knocked The **** Out". See what I did there was to make a joke based on the fact that you said that your fights end as soon as your opponent moves.

"Knocked The **** Out". See what I did there was to make a joke based on the fact that you said that your fights end as soon as your opponent moves.


We all got the joke! you will have to excuse the noob...isshen ryu you know.

Very good! I like that! But, actually no, I haven't been KTFO'd in quite some time. Not saying it couldn't happen!

It's really kind of funny. You folks get so upset and hurl insults at me for merely pointing out the flaws that have almost ruined the karate system I practice. I have yet to say a word about the arts you practice! I guess you guys would positively implode if I poked fun at your styles.

It's really kind of funny. You folks get so upset and hurl insults at me for merely pointing out the flaws that have almost ruined the karate system I practice. I have yet to say a word about the arts you practice! I guess you guys would positively implode if I poked fun at your styles.


No we would not! we are just funnin with you because you are new.

There's a lot I want to say, so I'm just going to jump right in and address your points:


"The way of karate is training. Karate training is kata training. Through kata training, one reaches self realization."

"In the old days, we trained at karate as a martial art, but now they train karate as a gymnastic sport. I think we must avoid treating karate as a sport - it must be a martial art at all times! ...Your fingers and the tips of your toes must be like arrows; your arm must be like iron. The fingers and toes should become like spears so that a single punch or kick can kill."

~Chosin Chibana

I've noticed in many karate circles there seems to be an almost violent, reactionary disgust with martial sports, as though the idea of something becoming "just a sport" would degrade the art and all of its honor. This is both understandable and justifiable, since point-sparring is just about the gayest thing since Heath Ledger learned how to fish, and two people slapfighting each other for points is completely removed from the original intent of karate.



I am really kind of suprised by "Boyd's" reaction to my post. I joined this group because of a post I stumbled on by him from that was posted a few years back. I guess his world was not "sufficiently rocked" enough!

PPS: I was a long time friend and student of Sensei Sherman Harrill until he passed away.

I liked Sherman. I disagree with almost everything he said and taught regarding the martial arts, but as a person, he was one of the most naturally charismatic I'd ever met. It's funny, because even though I've completely disassociated myself from Isshin-Ryu I still go back and watch some of his seminars, and I'm still genuinely impressed by his gravitas. In truth, I liked almost all the people I met and trained with in Isshin-Ryu. The art itself was the problem.


If you enjoy full contact sparring, or Olympic sparring, or point sparring, I think that is great. I wish you the best in your endeavors. You may be one of those who are very good at sparring, and if so you are due your respect. However, to think that sparring is "karate" is a misconception. Sparring is a relatively new concept in the overall timeline of karate history and sport karate enthusiasts specifically concentrate on about 10% of the total karate picture.

It is in ignoring the rest of karate (the mastery of the fundamentals, basic techniques, kata, and principles that made the early karate masters so efficient at real life-threatening combat) that has turned modern karate into what some yo-yos call "the laughing stock" of the martial arts world. This really pisses me off. If you study karate it should piss you off as well. Real karate is an extremely efficient, deadly martial science.

Here's where the problem lies. Your sparring should encompass the totality of your karate training. It should not stand opposed to your mastery of the fundamentals, your basic techniques, your kata, your principles. If it does, then there exists a problem either in your training or your sparring. Oftentimes we'll see a martial artist try to fit a square peg into a round hole; they'll have expectations of what a fight "should" be, and when it does not conform to those expectations, believe they are doing something wrong. This may not necessarily be the case. If, in your sparring, you find yourself relying almost entirely on basic punches and kicks over kata bunkai, you're not "forgetting" anything, but rather using and refining the most efficient tools in your arsenal. There's nothing wrong with that.


I also find it amusing that so many of the so-called new superior extreme fighting arts take a few techniques from karate, mix them up a bit, and sell them with shiny new packaging as something that is new and somehow better than the original.
No. I don't know what you mean by that, but no. 90% of all full-contact fighters train in boxing, muay thai, wrestling, and jiu-jitsu, all to varying degrees. While there's no doubt a lot of crossover between the arts, no one's secretly "taking" techniques from karate, or "selling them with a shiny new packaging". MMA is nothing if not transparent.


Could it possibly be that these "founders" of these new extreme fighting styles simply didn't take the time to develop any real depth of understanding in the art they were studying to begin with?
Given that no one's invented any new "extreme fighting styles", I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Could you elaborate, please?

GTG, SYL, NPJT

I guess you guys would positively implode if I poked fun at your styles.

(Shhhh, but I will give you a head start. Kyokushinkai karate is just as bad as TKD because they cant hit to the head, BJJ guys are suppressed gays and can only fight one guy at a time anyway, Boxing and Judo are ok but are just sports not martial arts.

There, that should get you started.....don't say I gave you any info ok!)