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Pandinha
2/05/2006 5:39pm,
I was asked by members and JFS to put this thread together to put end on whether JFS was teaching grappling in this seminar. If he wasn't teaching grappling, then he is not teaching Bullshido. If he was teaching grappling, then the answer is he is teaching Bullshido.

For the case of wheter it is Bullshido or not. We have multiple posts of JFS stating that he can defeat BJJ, and grappling is ineffective to his striking. We have no formal statement on the grappling training JFS as to who he received his Grappling instruction from, and who has certified him to teach Grappling, other than videos of he and another Bullshido member grappling, very badly.

It has been stated that JFS has not received any money from this seminar for his teachings, but it can be argued that any consideration, ie. Room and Board, Meals, or barter can be construed as consideration or renumeration of said teaching.

This thread is JFS and for me only to post in. Any other poster will have their posts deleted by me, or any other Admin/Moderator.


1. What exactly are these two people doing?

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2jpdt.jpg

To me, it looks like they are doing grappling drills.



2. The gentleman with his arms around the back of your legs, who looks would be moving forward. What is he doing?

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2jptz.jpg

To me, it looks like he's doing a very bad double leg takedown.

3. This looks to be another person doing the same thing, a double leg takedown. You seem to be doing something while he is doing the double leg takedown. What is it?

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2js4g.jpg

To me, you look to be showing a stance that will nullify the take down.

4. Is that you teaching an anti-grapple techhnique to stop the shoot? What is the person under your elbow doing?

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2jry1.jpg

To me, it looks like he's shooting and you are stopping it with an elbow to the back.

5. What are those two men doing? Is one mounted on top of another in a grappling sceanario? The one on the bottom that is mounted, why are his arms up together andplaced on the chest of the person on top?

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2jtag.jpg

To me, it looks like a very bad defense on keeping a person from mounting you.

6. What are these two people doing? What is the woman on the bottom defending from?

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2jurt.jpg

To me, it looks like she's doing that arm defense from someone mounting you.

7. What are these two people doing?

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2jvqc.jpg

It looks again to me, like mount defense.

8. What are these two people doing?

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2jw49.jpg

I've decided to add the gallery from which these pictures were taken. The argument, that these pictures may have been snapshots of another type of training that isn't grappling can be put to bed.

These galleries are part of a seminar that is teaching what looks grappling.

http://www.tonglong.co.uk/index.php?categoryid=3&p17_sectionid=11

Again, to me it looks like grappling.

Groundwork can have both, striking and grappling, in these pictures I only see grappling, other than your elbow to the back while defending a shoot.

If this hasn't been answered already, if you are not teaching grappling, or anti-grappling, then what are you teaching?

JFS USA
2/09/2006 5:13am,
I'll go through each pic until the gist of what I was presenting becomes clear to you and then cap it at that. I have no desire to present a seminar in written format on a forum. Whether you ultimately agree or disagree with my rationale is not something I'm willing to debate. You think what you think and that ends the matter for me.

Let's define some terms so I can move through this thing quickly and cleanly.

Upright: Any postural configuration wherein the hands/arms are not employed as supportive points of contact.

In Plane: Any postural configuration in which the body proper is either on or online with the ground.

Rotational Force: Biomechanical arrangement by which force is produced by virtue of turning - rotating about the Axis regardless of total number of derees traveled (arc of rotation).

Axis: Anatomically the spine ... in actual application the Axis can be any line of any length so long as it lies generally along the path of the spine.

Translational Force: Biomechanical arrangement wherein a "casting" of body mass along a generally linear path and routed into a body stucture designed - intended to deposit force into another body.

It's dirt early and I'm not proofing this as I type it. Are the terms clear at this point in time?

Pandinha
2/09/2006 7:51am,
I agree to your terms, as long as we agree to mine.

Grappling. Standing or ground fighting techniques that employ the following:

1. Use of body weight to control opponent
2. Use of push or pull to control opponent whether standing or ground grappling.

Anti Grappling. Techniques created to stop fights reaching the grappling range, in essence, learning grappling techniques to counter grappling.

Pandinha
2/09/2006 4:42pm,
'With regards to drawing this out, we decided to just put all of our cards on the table. From a mega poster that did over 26 posts a day, we think over 72 hours was more than enough time for an answer.

Fact: JFS USA was teaching grappling/anti-grappling. Those pictures leave nothing to the imagination. The questions are starght forward.

If that was not grappling, and JFS claims to not train or train anyone in grappling then these questions need answers."

1. Why does JFS USA claim to have trained 2 years in BJJ? Training in it before the First UFC in 1993?

PostPosted by JFS USA Fri May 06, 2005 2:08 pm Post subject: Real World Grappling Reply with quote
I'll see about having a few rolling sessions video taped in order to address the grappling aspects of street fighting.

Most of what I do has a Greco-Roman & Olympic Free Style base with the joint locks - destruction coming from what I can only term "old frame" BJJ. Seems the sports movement has claimed another victim as the younger BJJ guys are clueless.

I learned the BJJ stuff in the years 1992 - 94 from JTF Cadre who were all Lancero ... when in Rome ...

http://www.armbell.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12&highlight=&mforum=haydn

2. Why does JFS USA claim to be a Pankration Instructor?

http://www.usa.pankrationacademy.com/usa_instructors.htm

3. Why does JFS USA claim to have Greco Roman wrestling backround?

http://www.usa.pankrationacademy.com/usa_instructors.htm

4. Why does JFS USA claim to have Catch Wrestling backround?

http://www.usa.pankrationacademy.com/usa_instructors.htm

With all this information of BULLSHIDO, is there any other doubt what was being taught was nothing but crappling Bullshido?

There is no further argument, in regards to what he was teaching and what he is guilty of. This ends this investigation of Bullshido.

Judah Maccabee
2/09/2006 11:01pm,
#1. Failed crabwalk.

#2. JFS USA taken by surprise at affection bestowed upon him by a denim-clad twink, but manages to get his groin out of the target zone.

#3. Affection bestowment #2, except armed with a concealed sex toy. Please notice left rear pocket of Gay man #2.

#4. Rearward monkey steals the peach countered by Shakespearean verbal defense:


I will bite my thumb at them;
which is a disgrace to them, if they bear it.

#5. Grandpa JFS had too much Southern Comfort (and whiskey too, OH!) and he can't find his glasses, so he's groping for the stairs when he walks in and blunders upon his step-nephew giving it ball-deep to the paperboy.


#6. (translated from the Japanese) "SONIC WAVE FORM DEFENSE!" Notice in the right of the picture, another opponent was dispatched with the same technique.


#7.

White guy: "I heard the funniest comedy sketch last night. It was Andrew Dice Clay, and he did this thing about he couldn't get a suit from a Chinaman because he couldn't understand '42 long'"

Asian guy: *jabs thumb towards self* Hey! I'm a Chinaman, asshole!"

White guy: *cringes* Oh ****! Don't hurt me!

Asian guy: "The proper nomenclature is Asian-American!"

#8. Grandpa JFS found his spare set of contacts and is ashamedly looking on as the paperboy switches positions and tells the step-nephew "Ah wish ah knew how ta quit yew!"

---


You must spread around more Reputation before giving it to Anthony again.

Damn. My BBC perk is failing me.

JFS USA
2/10/2006 5:50am,
Samurai Steve is allowed to post in this thread what he thinks those movements in images above are.

You are showing yourself to be far less than honest, Anthony. I no longer am home office based ... for that matter I no longer have a home.

Your decision to allow Samurai Steve to post on this thread after stating only you and I were to post, and his subsequent bullshit post, is nonsense as well.

If you can't clean this up and pursue the matter in an open, honest way then my sole response to the cries of "Bullshido" by the grappler nutriders is simple, direct and without need for defining. Show up and put up or STFU.

I require none of you ... or Bullshido ... to "validate" me in any way. I paid my dues a long time ago and my reputation as a FIGHTER remains untarnished regardless of this forum.

Which way do you want it Anthony ... real or paper thin witch hunt?

Your definition of grappling is fine with me.

Striking: The rapid imparting of force into or at a target with some part of the Human Form being the transfer bar for force production.

A head butt is a strike ... as is a foot stomp. The key and deciding element is "speed" of force transfer. Note, I posted "speed" and not "velocity" as the direction of a strike is not a defining characteristic.

Some TCMA - CMA methods have structures based on a strike playing off of the return stroke ... others ... reconfigure on the fly.

It's about 528AM and I've disrupted my morning workout to check on this thread. I won't be able to get back online until late this eveing or very early tomorrow morning.

If the thread is going to be shitted up by the likes of S. Steve then I'm not wasting my time. I'll simply leave you with the same ultimate litmus test that jammed that idiot Osiris and the others ... Show up and put up or STFU.

The only "Bullshido" being demonstrated thus far is by a few Bullshido Admin ... mouth boxers and cowards.

Pandinha
2/10/2006 1:59pm,
I think we are done here...


Antony, I've read the first 2 pages of this thread but couldnt be bothered to plough through another 21 pages so excuse if this has already been covered, but I think you are a div.

I was at that seminar. I would in fact be the "skinny (6' 1" 188lbs) guy" in the pic with Phu the large Chinese guy above.

I shall say this only once, JFS wasnt teaching grappling. he was running through an anti-grappling scenario from a non-compliant (street) point of view.
this was about maybe 1/8th of the seminar time.

you asked why my arms are in front like that, it was practising going down and taking the fall without dropping elbows back to the floor to break the fall, and to ensure that one hand is available in your face to get fishhooks in or thumbs into eyes whilst the other is going downwards to groin to grab a handful & maul with a view to hopefully get him the **** off me.

is that "grappling" as you know it?

yes, we are non-grapplers. as such we have no desire to grapple, especially with people who especially want to, because chances are theyre probably quite good at it if that's what they want to do.

how effective the techniques are is obviously up for debate, it would depend largely on who's applying them on both sides i suppose, but I now have a much better idea what grapplers will try to do since the seminar, (plus Renzo Gracies excellent Mastering Jujitsu book) and what my strategies would be at all stages of the confrontation.

lets face it, if i am going to get beaten by a grappler anyway, a good idea of his gameplan, how to interfere with it in a way he won't be expecting plus a few dirty tricks can only help my chances.

and as the only time i'll be on the ground facing a grappler trying to hurt me would be in a live (street) scenario & my first choice of strategy if it got as far as the floor would be waiting for my mates to pile in and kick the twat to bits while he's trying to lock me up or whatever.

JFS USA
2/11/2006 2:11am,
Yes, Anthony, you are in fact through here. You have been a good piss boy for Phrost and attempted to do a hatchet job on me. You failed. Same score as before ... the Bullshido **** slinging MODs & Admin have yet to score a single point while there aren't enough spaces on the score board to carry my winnings.

There is no such thing as "anti-grappling" ... counter moves based on grappling is simply grappling. Striking to negate a grappling application is simply striking.

Anti-grappling is a marketing ploy and it has been converted to a conceptual platform of sorts by younger generations.

Time for you and your BJJ nutrider droogies to choose your champion. I tire of the endless bullshit put out by no mark nothings such as yourself. Choose your pure grappling champion and do the Old School Bullshido thing ... send him to personally investigate the matter.
Send him to me. I'll make sure what's left of him post authentic hard sparring gets back on the plane. He's your problem after that.

You think Nish and his Girlfriend were practicing "grappling drills"? Christ, you need to stop talking to machines all day and have some Human interaction. You would have to come up a few levels to qualify as idiotic.

The grappling nutriders will scream *shrill Girly voices* "victory" on this thread. Those that know me can see it for what it's worth. Bottom line is Bullshido is now Bullshido itself ... a playground for miscreants and mouthy youth with neither the experience nor MA skill set to handle me on their best day and my worse.

Stop your mouth boxing ... bring it on yourself ... or send me your grappling champion. Osiris has all ready backed down twice so he's out of it.

No, I was not "stopping a shoot" with an elbow to the back. I presented striking outside the boundaries of the typical, e.g., both parties basically upright. How forces are dealt with by the Human Form differs in response to several variables one of which happens to be the plane of orientation both of the receiver (person struck) and the person issuing (striking) force.

As bipedal creatures we have adapted quite well to the ever present force of gravity. Our adaptive range is limited by the demands imposed on us daily. By and large this resolves down to dealing with a line of force running from top to bottom (Earth) when upright or in plane.

What we do not deal with very well are forces that manifest on lines that run at angle ... particularly true is the angle also contains a rise or fall along its path of formation.

Pure striking entails decomposing the Human Form. I refer to it as putting a twist into a person's structure ... the angle of strike causes some portion of the individual struck to experience rotation to whatever degree. Degree of rotation is dependent upon several factors not the least of which is the area struck in relationship to the target's center of mass ... their dynamic balance
point ... not the static balance point.

The elbow pic has produced some hysterically funny reads. I like the ones that contend the strike is to the "spine" ... grapplers really have a rather retarded understanding of Human anatomy. Makes sense as pure grapplers claiming to be MA are retarded to begin with.

Striking through the shoulder plane produces a good effect ... it causes a twist to form in the person's structre ... makes them rotate about their axis, the spine.

As the upright thing has been done to death I presented some things wherein the target wasn't fully upright ... the first part of the Seminar was typical upright ... then I distorted their form so they could see and experience the differences in action - reaction. This is all really far above the head of grapplers as you have nothing even remotely analogous in your discipline ... limied as it is.

Using the same "spine" smash ... according to the moronic grapplers that posted it as such ... look where his head is located. When upright or in plane, rotation, total structure distortion, loss of balance, is dependent upon far more than location of strike and magnitude of force of strike.

Again, as none too bright grapplers are reading this ... and no doubt drawing a blank as they have very little to draw upon to begin with ... the nuances of force manipulation is lost on you all. However, let me see if I can bring it way, way, way down ... so you rollers can quit going "Duuuhhh, whata he jus say ... huh ... duuuhhhhh ..."

In the pic I was demonstrating how imparting a force through one area of the body causes the body struck to reconfigure and how it reconfigures is driven in part by a component I sometimes refer to as "achoring" or "anchor points." See how his head is positioned ... if his head was clear of contact - anchoring, his body would react - distort much differently post impact

With his head free of contact the line of force of strike would cause him to freely rotate clockwise. With his head ... an anchor point ... positioned as it is this rotation would actually move him even more into me. Find the old photo of Marciano lighting up Jersey Joe ... that same angular acceleration played through the body in a plane other than upright and with a different achoring set up produces entirely different results.

Why is any of this important to any real MA ... those that strike? Simple, understanding how the Human Form tends to act and react in response to being struck is what allows those of us who actually know something about real fighting to load our opponent into the line of fire. We don't bother with slow reading body to body contact in order to anticipate what our opponent is doing. We cause them to move by striking them with real power and are all ready waiting for them as they move. We don't bother with predetermined combinations ... we know from direct experience that upon impact where he's going and what he will look like as a target ... we're all ready "there" ... waiting for him. You grapplers move entirely too slow to have any experience with this high end skill. In terms of speed of movement and pure power production ... grapplers are slow motion weaklings.

I know, Anthony, you can't make anything out of what I'm posting ... but will lie and claim otherwise and then lie some more and pronounce it Bullshido. Ditto for Osiris ... now known as Raynor or whatever. I simply consider the source of your **** slinging and laugh. For all your bluster and fluff ... you all are scared shitless of me.

Do try not to burn out your precious brains coming up with rebuttal trash. In MA ... it all resolves down to fighting and the mouth boxing Admin have shown their true colors ... yellow, a great big yellow streak running down the middle of your backs ... right where a MAN has a spine.

Your attempt to salvage something from your post lies concerning my charging for teaching failed as well, Anthony. You attempted to assert "payment in kind" as a defense of your lies when people made the clear connection "Payment as in monetary gain" for teaching.

You are a sorry excuse for a Human Being, Anthony. And from the two pictures I've seen of you, a rather fat, poorly conditioned failure as well. BTW, that Seminar was approximately 4 months after I suffered a stroke subsequent to thrown emboli from previous major back surgery. Even in that state, I presented in far better condition than your photos indicate you to be in. Think about it.

It's now approx. 2AM ... I've typed this but not edited it. It's a raw read ... deal with it.

Investigation completed ... Bullshido is now itself Bullshido ... carry on.

Pandinha
2/11/2006 2:19am,
You managed to say alot about nothing. But end up falling back on what you are good at, insulting other people to cover up your lies about your training, or rather lack of. I noticed you conviently missed answering the validity of your 2 years of BJJ from Columbian Officers. Or your Teacher ranking in Pankration, Catch Wrestling, and Greco.

I did get, you were teaching grappling. Your own student that was there and in one of the pictures has admitted he was learning anti-grappling from you.

Thank you, that's enough.

You are guilty of teachiing Bullshido.

You are a liar.

You have no place here on Bullshido.

Still giving out challenges. Too bad you don't have "time" to get online much. You'd find that your whole online personna has been brought to the light, and your accountablity is about zero. Your challenges remind me of my son when he was 5 years old and didn't get his way, he'd get loud and have a little tantrum. Appalling to see it in a senior citizen.

You sad ****.

JFS USA
2/11/2006 11:06am,
Just as I anticipated, Anthony. You continue to lie ... see your rigged "poll" above. You are guilty of having -0- integrity, a complete lack of honesty, no credibility, and without any guts whatsoever. You have no business on Bullshido ... or even breathing air.

Tell you what fat boy ... any time ... just bring it on. The FACT that I will put up is something none of you trolls masquerading as Admin can get around. It's in your face and your attempts to ignore it portray you wankers perfectly ... all blow ... no go.

I had no "student" at the Seminar. First time meeting all save for two attendees. "Anti-grappling" is something you can't taint me with. What I presented are things I learned long before the term was even created.

Forum Members: If I am "Bullshido" ... why is it the forum Admin plays word games from afar but can't seem to get it together to play the way all of us who are MA play? Namely, in person, one on one. They attempt to dismiss me as "no one" on the one hand and then go to great lengths in a repeatedly failed attempt to discredit me on the other. Irrational behavior at its finest.

You're pathetic, Anthony, and far beneathe contempt ... pity you reproduced.

Omega: [email protected] is a good Email addy for me. 410-206-6258 is my cell phone number. I'm presently living in DC. If you make it into Boston this Summer I'll meet you there. We'll cross hands and you report back to the forum as you deem appropriate. Seems the Admin hatchet crew checked in their balls, lost their ticket and can't reclaim them.

Pandinha
2/11/2006 12:59pm,
Just as I anticipated, Anthony. You continue to lie ... see your rigged "poll" above. You are guilty of having -0- integrity, a complete lack of honesty, no credibility, and without any guts whatsoever. You have no business on Bullshido ... or even breathing air.

Tell you what fat boy ... any time ... just bring it on. The FACT that I will put up is something none of you trolls masquerading as Admin can get around. It's in your face and your attempts to ignore it portray you wankers perfectly ... all blow ... no go.

I had no "student" at the Seminar. First time meeting all save for two attendees. "Anti-grappling" is something you can't taint me with. What I presented are things I learned long before the term was even created.

Forum Members: If I am "Bullshido" ... why is it the forum Admin plays word games from afar but can't seem to get it together to play the way all of us who are MA play? Namely, in person, one on one. They attempt to dismiss me as "no one" on the one hand and then go to great lengths in a repeatedly failed attempt to discredit me on the other. Irrational behavior at its finest.

You're pathetic, Anthony, and far beneathe contempt ... pity you reproduced.

Omega: [email protected] is a good Email addy for me. 410-206-6258 is my cell phone number. I'm presently living in DC. If you make it into Boston this Summer I'll meet you there. We'll cross hands and you report back to the forum as you deem appropriate. Seems the Admin hatchet crew checked in their balls, lost their ticket and can't reclaim them.

Again, Deny, deny, deny.

You are a liar, and a fraud. NO ONE has denied you may have striking skills. YOU HAVE ZERO GRAPPLING SKILLS.

You have lied about your grappling training, and have trained people in those pictures in anti grappling. One of the students of that seminar has posted it as such.

I'm tired of the challenges, anytime you want, South Florida.

JFS USA
2/11/2006 4:59pm,
Again, Deny, deny, deny.

You are a liar, and a fraud. NO ONE has denied you may have striking skills. YOU HAVE ZERO GRAPPLING SKILLS.

You have lied about your grappling training, and have trained people in those pictures in anti grappling. One of the students of that seminar has posted it as such.

I'm tired of the challenges, anytime you want, South Florida.

*yawn*

Pandinha
2/11/2006 5:00pm,
*yawn*

Liar.

Who were your BJJ instructors?

Pandinha
2/11/2006 5:05pm,
One of the more respected members of Bullshido...


When I went to the TD, JFS was being shown a keylock by groundcontrolba and John Rallo. He had /no/ idea what it was or how it worked.

His statement was that he learned BJJ from Lanceros (Columbian army officers being run through US Army Rangers school) during Joint Testing and Evaluation between 1992 and 1994.

Aside from the relative unlikeliness of Columbian army officers knowing BJJ, the idea that anyone learned anything about BJJ and yet was completely unfamiliar with a keylock is laughable. I don't mean "laughable" as a hyperbolic descriptor; I mean that literally the only appropriate response to someone making the claim that they learned from anyone with any knowledge of BJJ for two years and yet were completely ignorant as to what a keylock is is to laugh at them.

Aside from being contradicted by evidence, this statement also contradicts his later statements that he was a BJJ novice and his only grappling experience was wrestling. So even if you don't know enough about grappling to understand how ridiculous it is to claim two years training with BJJers and yet not know what a keylock is, and you're unwilling to take our word for it, you STILL can see that there is a clear inconsistency between his earlier and later claims of experience. This means he was actively lying about his grappling experience. Not exaggerating or bragging, but lying.

Previously, I thought that the investigation was a lousy excuse for an expose, not because I thought those pics weren't Bushido, but because they were a while ago, and JFS had since said his grappling was poor and started training with BJJ guys - someone with lousy grappling admitting it and improving is something we should /encourage/, not brand them forever with a scarlet "B". But someone lying about their experience as they offer their services as an instructor is very, very different.

Pandinha
2/11/2006 5:11pm,
Thread is done. Will stay up sticky.

JFS USA is Bullshido.

If he's lied about his BJJ, Greco, and Folk style grappling, what else has he lied about?

Pandinha
2/14/2006 11:46pm,
More info added to be used in article.


Then who [martial artists] wouldn't be able to say the teach pankration? Not many martial art people for sure. So what you are sayin is its not even worthy of sayin OMG because it doesn't even mean anything.

Add that with the statement from what link you posted.

The Phalanx Pankration Academy is an Anglo-American Combat Pankration and Pankration Athlima organisation governed through its International Council (ICPP). Both the UK and USA have their own National Phalanx Pankration Federations: GBFPA and AFPA. The International Council is drawn up from the Senior Thaskali in each country.

So when we read it it sounds very impressive but then you see whats going on. The whole anglo-amercan [thats right its USA and UK] pankration academy is governed by an INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL [wow sounds impressive so far] and the council is made from SENIOR THASKILI [wow].

Who is the SENIOR THASKALI?

Thaskalos (8) Therthaktor John F. Springer

Would THASKALOS be singular for THASKALI? Seems it is so.

http://www.usa.pankrationacademy.com/usa_instructors.htm

So the SENIOR THASKALI is JFS and a few more. So HE is [one of] the men on the council and that council governs proceedings for hiearchy so JFS is effective self appointed. Him and the rest.

NOT SO WOW IMPRESSIVE.



Why not RBSD then? Maybe if they say RBSD people can question [lots of RBSD around] but not that many pankration people about to question if they should be high rank intructors.

Seems Some people made a website. They made their own rank. JFS is 8th level black belt. Says here

Thaskalos/Propontia rank progression will be ratified by the appropriate National Governing Body for the Phalanx Pankration Academy (United States or Great Britain).

So USA thaskali decide who is USA thaskali.

And where is mister jacks pankration school [Palaestra]?
Why it is his bullshido throwdown setup of course

Palaestra: Maryland Throw Down: Groundcontrol Brazilian Ju-Jitsu Academy Baltimore MD USA

http://www.pankrationacademy.com/usa_instructors.htm

Have all bullshido maryland touchdown crew been recieving good pankration teaching from 8th level thaskalos JFS?

:tellme: