View Full Version : Systema UK Bullshido

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12/20/2005 8:36pm,
Did a search, found nothing, hope this hasnt been here before, here is the link:


What can I say? I dont know what it is, they claim its "Martial Arts" or something...

gX, Chris

12/20/2005 9:11pm,
Yeah, Systema is pretty widely known around here. You sure you searched?

I don't like most of their stuff, but I can say I've met some Systema guys that can hit hard as hell and can take some pretty hard hits as well.

12/22/2005 7:38am,
Seems pretty clear that no searching was done...and on THIS particular site - a 'noob' with a first post trying to earn props from this crew by bashing any m.a. without a lil more content...always suspect.

Do some homework and actually do 'the work' with a Systemist before you throw down the gauntlet.....the UK 'crew' would welcome you with open arms.

After that..when you have real time content to post -- then PLEASE do so.
Clips are hardly the basis for any real deal/real time conversation. If you wish to build any form of rep on this site...and refuse or 'cant afford to attend' a real time session with ANY exponent - then pick an easier target like Ashida Kim --- or else? Sit back and STFU!

Quiet kid, ya bother me -- (W.C Fields)...there are adults talking here..(at least most times).

Paul Genge
12/22/2005 8:43am,
I note your location is Germany. Use that fabulous public transport system you have over there and make your way to Munster. That is where the instructor in the video (Valentine Vasiliev) teaches. Not only will it save you a flight to the UK, you will be able to ask your questions direct to the person you are trying to bad mouth.....

Have fun.

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK) (http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk)

12/22/2005 10:43am,
Systema was the MA of the Soviet SF (spetznaz) as wellas the KGB and is reputed to be very effective.

12/22/2005 11:06am,
Very fast hands, especially for a guy his age.

12/22/2005 8:30pm,
I'm totally undecided without actually training with the guys.

But damn, there were a few movements there that were seriously fast.

12/22/2005 11:22pm,
The only systema I have seen myself came by way of Cuba , the hand to hand was okay ,but the knife work was great ,very very fast.

12/23/2005 6:00am,
The only systema I have seen myself came by way of Cuba , the hand to hand was okay ,but the knife work was great ,very very fast.

That's interesting.

I have liked some of what I've seen in Systema video clips
(the physical exercises for all over strength looked hard, there was some sparring, and some of the drills definitely looked alive/resistant. The older Vasiliev brother certainly looks very fast and agile).

Enough that I am curious about the system.

One of the doubts I had about it was whether or not Systema was really used in Soviet military/intelligence training in the way claimed, or whether it was a more recent concoction put together by a few Russian ex-military people who then claimed it was the 'uber KGB bodyguard martial art' for marketing purposes.

If you know of cubans trained by the old soviet ally, then that would support the case that Systema really was some kind of formal training programme in the old soviet intelligence/SF apparatus.

I still think that some of the knife defences look scary.

Paul Genge
12/23/2005 6:47am,
The only way you will know if Systema is for you is to try. This is the same as any other martial art in that respect.

In Moscow we met various serving and ex-millitary people including a major in the GRU and a member of the team from Nordorf. We also spent time on the Vityaz Special Forces base. If that does not convince you of the link nothing else will. Also try watching the Gowarrior episode on the Russian Martial Arts. You will see the link there as well.

Having said all that the link in itself means nothing. What is important is what these people have to teach. The only thing with Systema in the UK is that the standards vary. If looking for a club contact either Rob P or myself on this forum and we will try and point you in the right direction.

Paul Genge

12/23/2005 10:35am,
Are there any Systema instructors down Oxford way ?

12/23/2005 10:51am,
Like I've said before, Systema has some neat things in it. Even in that regard, I would never, EVER do some of their knife defenses.

Especially like those seen on that Discovery style program. Oh lord...

12/23/2005 12:42pm,

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm just not desperate and/or socially retarded enough to having to earn probs on any internet discussion group to feel good.

Saw this video, thought "mother of troy...", maybe someone else wants to see it.

I also already made an agreement with some guys to visit V.V. next time we are near Münster.

So here is what aroused my suspicion of bullshido:

a) In the beginning when the other guy punches him, what exactly is he demonstrating? What a tough guy he is or a technique to defend from punches by twisting his upper body?

b) When beeing "attacked" by a number of opponents, i dont see any special technique in his evasive maneuvers. If thats all he got, he would get his ass kicked if the other guys would really go for it.

c) His training partners act like dolls when he demonstrates the techniques on them. I also think most of the stuff wouldnt work in a real situation.

I dont doubt that he is strong and/or fast, and he sure can kick, but from what I see on that video, my common sense tells me that this system isnt any good.

12/23/2005 1:31pm,
Systema is one of many arts praticed by Russian Special Forces. For the most part each base commander has a strong say in what is taught, for some it is Karate, for a few it is Systema. The greatest majority of people though train in Sambo, and that includes Russian Special Forces.

Paul Genge
12/23/2005 1:32pm,
Please make the trip then comment. At least you will talking from experience. Valentine is more than capable of giving you the answers you are looking for. I know I was one of the rag dolls you are talking about.

Paul Genge

12/23/2005 1:54pm,
Cullion - try http://www.systemauk.com/classes.htm

I think the closest would be Maidenhead.

a) demoing different ways to take strikes

b) It's not all his got - far from it. And you are right, there aren't any "special techniques", just good movement

c) It's a demo of a particualr point or principle not a fight. And it does. Otherwise we wouldn't do it.

Here's our latest clip of a trainng session from a couple of weeks back, based around common types of attack