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roly
11/24/2005 9:48pm,
recently our judo class had a session on some of the techniques that are not allowed in judo competition (edit. i forget the name, can someone help me out here) i found this quite interesting and i'm wondering if anyone can reccomend any good dvd's/books/websites/anything ?

for the non-judo people some common techniques that are illegal in judo competition
- certain throws ie. scissor throw (kani basami *typo?* )
- neck cranks
- leglocks/ankle locks

if anyone can give me a hand here, i'd be grateful

Shillelagh
11/24/2005 9:58pm,
http://judoinfo.com/techjudo.htm

Pretty well-known site, but it does mention illegal techniques in some detail. The only thing on your list I couldn't find while skimming over the pages just now was anything about leglocks, but that doesn't mean it's not on the site somewhere.

roly
11/24/2005 10:47pm,
i've already skimmed over judoinfo, not in great detail.(i will later tonight) but all i could find was a picture of the scissor throw, and a picture of a pickup/slam. i am looking for something that goes into detail

Yrkoon9
11/24/2005 10:59pm,
Judo has a lot of techniques that are not allowed in competition. 99% of them are due to safety concerns. Do Judo for any length of time and you will find out why. Judo has an extremely high accident injury rate already with just the legal techniques. Adding in the illegal ones makes it, IMHO, one of the most dangerous martial arts to practice.

infidel
11/24/2005 11:53pm,
does that make bjj one of the most dangerous martial arts to practics as many of those illegal judo moves are legal in bjj?

missile
11/25/2005 12:16am,
It's rumoured that Kani Basami is going to be brought back in (or so says one of my judo instructors.) I think the incident that lead to the ban ( a leg break at an all-Japan tournament) happened in 1980, so its about time they (the IJF) reviewed the policy at least.

roly
11/25/2005 12:21am,
Judo has a lot of techniques that are not allowed in competition. 99% of them are due to safety concerns. Do Judo for any length of time and you will find out why. Judo has an extremely high accident injury rate already with just the legal techniques. Adding in the illegal ones makes it, IMHO, one of the most dangerous martial arts to practice.

in our lesson, we were just learning the technique, no randori (resisting sparring) using them, but yeah i fully agree that judo is quite dangerous (its the noobs to be careful of rather than the blackbelts)


does that make bjj one of the most dangerous martial arts to practics as many of those illegal judo moves are legal in bjj?
no, several reasons why
- some of the moves are illegal in bjj anyway (scissor takedowns, leglocks for whitebelts, pickup and slam etc)
- bjj is mostly trained already on the ground, no-where near the amount of falling compared to a judo practice

lawdog
11/25/2005 9:11am,
recently our judo class had a session on some of the techniques that are not allowed in judo competition (edit. i forget the name, can someone help me out here) i found this quite interesting and i'm wondering if anyone can reccomend any good dvd's/books/websites/anything ?

for the non-judo people some common techniques that are illegal in judo competition
- certain throws ie. scissor throw (kani basami *typo?* )
- neck cranks
- leglocks/ankle locks

if anyone can give me a hand here, i'd be grateful
What exactly are you asking? Do you want a list of all the illegal techniques, or do you want examples of how to do the illegal techniques? If the latter, why?

Ronin
11/25/2005 9:21am,
All the basic stuff you are taught is legal in judo, so, stick with that stuff and you well do fine.
Look at all the competions, Nationa, Worlds and Olympic, no one ever won them with "exotic" or "advanced" techniques.
Master the basics and they will serve you well.

sui generis
11/25/2005 5:09pm,
recently our judo class had a session on some of the techniques that are not allowed in judo competition (edit. i forget the name, can someone help me out here) i found this quite interesting and i'm wondering if anyone can reccomend any good dvd's/books/websites/anything ?

for the non-judo people some common techniques that are illegal in judo competition
- certain throws ie. scissor throw (kani basami *typo?* )
- neck cranks
- leglocks/ankle locks

if anyone can give me a hand here, i'd be grateful

... besides the ones you mentioned:

"dropped" waki-gatame [tori does waki gatame from standing position whilst dropping his body weight onto ukes ellbow joint, ending up in waki-gatame on the ground]

a certain version of the khabarelli-throw

slamming ppl who are using guard

FighterJones
11/25/2005 5:19pm,
I not knowingly when i was little kid did a thing similar of a dropping waki gatame as a little kid when i felt threatened (if I understand the concept of dropping waki gatame correctly)
was never taught it, i just acted instinctively. (Cradle the arm like your escorting a women politely, but lock it up tight and drop to your knees)
person came to school the next day and aparantly I almost busted the arm
Grade 4 jitsu!

roly
11/25/2005 6:56pm,
What exactly are you asking? Do you want a list of all the illegal techniques, or do you want examples of how to do the illegal techniques? If the latter, why?

i'm wondering if anyone can reccomend any good dvd's/books/websites/anything ? ^ thats what i'm looking for

why, because i'm curious about them, and since they arent moves that i'll ever really be doing in randori, its the only exposure i'll get to them. mostly curiousity



All the basic stuff you are taught is legal in judo, so, stick with that stuff and you well do fine.
Look at all the competions, Nationa, Worlds and Olympic, no one ever won them with "exotic" or "advanced" techniques.
Master the basics and they will serve you well.
guys, i'm not out to learn these things to actually use against my training partners, i want to see how its done because it is judo that i have not seen before.


i have found an old book written by "kawaishi" but it is in french. it seems to have been written before a lot of the rule changes, so it shows a few things that arent legal anymore. judo really was a nasty business back then...

nerveasian
11/25/2005 9:45pm,
I not knowingly when i was little kid did a thing similar of a dropping waki gatame as a little kid when i felt threatened (if I understand the concept of dropping waki gatame correctly)
was never taught it, i just acted instinctively. (Cradle the arm like your escorting a women politely, but lock it up tight and drop to your knees)
person came to school the next day and aparantly I almost busted the arm
Grade 4 jitsu!
Same here. On t3h pl4ygr0und, a dropping waki-gatame is probably the simplest and most intuitive way of dealing with people trying to grab you. As a small child, I suffered many near-hyperextensions on my elbow at the hands of the cool kids who would take my lunch money. Your elbow hurts for days and days afterwards.

Yrkoon9
11/26/2005 2:32am,
does that make bjj one of the most dangerous martial arts to practics as many of those illegal judo moves are legal in bjj?

No. That is a false assumption. The reason Judo is one of the most dangerous martial arts to practice is because of the high impact throws. BJJ, although it does encompass throwing does not place the same emphasis on throwing techniques. It is not the illegal techniques of Judo that makes Judo dangerous. It is the legal ones. That have two guys landing on each other after a ballistic throw. Those pesky shoulder and knee joints just don't seem built for that kind of thing.

JohnnyFive
11/26/2005 3:16pm,
Actually, Judo is quite safe compared to, say, soccer, which has close to a 24% injury rate. It's all that planting and twisting, and suddenly SNAP! No more ACL.

lawdog
11/26/2005 3:33pm,
Actually, Judo is quite safe compared to, say, soccer, which has close to a 24% injury rate. It's all that planting and twisting, and suddenly SNAP! No more ACL.
I don't know the actual statistics, but I have to believe that for a competitive judoka, the injury rate would have to be higher than 24%. I've never known any high level players who did not suffer a significant injury at some point in their careers.

I'm sure soccer has a higher rate of knee injuries, although judo has its fair share, but judo has all of the other injuries that are less likely in soccer. Shoulder, back & neck, elbow, wrist, in that order. And that's only the significant injuries, that doesn't even count all the minor stuff that we always have to contend with.