A simple cross choke. In GJJ it is done by rotating your radius bones and pulling to give more leverage. I think it was Rafeal Torre who said he once showed a Judo man that and the Judo instructor said he knew it ws better that was. When Torre asked why he didnt TEACH it that way the man shrugged and said "Tradition".

I dont want to get into this because its going to happen soon anyway, but we're going to see a WORLD CHAMPION in judo face someone who doesnt even COMPETE in the BJJ competiton circut. If Royce beats him then all the people who say that GJJ is the same as Judo are going to look pretty stupid.

"Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, ****** mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).

If the Mount and Guard and Side Control are techniques that people outside Judo and Jiu jitsu are so familiar with then why were people outside these styles HELPLESS against these techniques?

I've been around the M.A. scene for a while man. Dont listen to people who lie and tell you those techniques were always known. They try and make fools out of people.

"Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, ****** mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).

Choke there are plenty of McDojo type Judo blackbelts. I don't know how good these guys were but national level Judo players are very tough and hard to take down.

Yea that reall sucks about Judo. They also rely way to much on the gi. I mean c'mon not every opponent wears a gi they need to adapt techniques so a person without a gi.

>If the Mount and Guard and Side Control are techniques that people outside Judo and Jiu jitsu are so familiar with then why were people outside these styles HELPLESS against these techniques?

Actually CMA DID have the gaurd. They called it "CLIPPING" (don't ask me why that's what it translated to.) It was used in Ground boxing skill but these skills are were not primary concern.

>I've been around the M.A. scene for a while man. Dont listen to people who lie and tell you those techniques were always known. They try and make fools out of people.

I've been in MA for over 23 yrs. I have ducomentation to prove these techniques existed. I agree many pple didn't train it but it doesn't mean it didn't exist.


As far as the gi thing. The GI is suppose to substitue normal clothing. How often do you fight someone naked out side paying to do it and MMA Compts.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!




Edited by - Asia on August 16 2002 03:00:21

Asia....I dont know how I can say this without being offensive so I'll just shoot straight from the hip:

You're FULL OF ****! I've made this same request about 1000 times...SHOW ME PROOF BEFORE 1980 tht this stuff was around. A book, recording, video, ANYTHING from Chinese martial arts. You'll NEVER BE ABLE TO DO IT! Wanna know why? Because you're FULL OF ****!

Let me guess...somewhere there is an ancient Chinese master that knows groundfighting better than ANY Gracie or Shootfighter. He is too OLD to prove it NOW tho. He kept thos knowledge SECRET because he didnt want RIVAL SCHOOLS to find out his deadly knowledge. This knowledge thus became a secret, passing only to the most LOYAL students.

How many episodes of Dragon Ball Z have you seen in your lifetime?

The only Guard in Chinese martial arts is the one where you wrap your legs around the guy and SQUEEZE real hard while yelling for the police. William Cheung sure knew alot about this guard when Emin Boztepe slapped his face and then threw him to the ground like 2 grade school kids on a playground huh? And Cheung is a Grandmaster. Hes from China. There is no groundfighting in Kung Fu. I cant BELIEVE people still believe this crap! Its NUTS!

"Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, ****** mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).

>How many episodes of Dragon Ball Z have you seen in your lifetime?

All of them. Whats your point.

Since we are shooting form the hip:
>Let me guess...somewhere there is an ancient Chinese master that knows groundfighting better than ANY Gracie or Shootfighter

Where have I ever implied that? You can't tell me can you because I HAVEN'T!!! All I said was the techniques are NOT new. But Why do you always default to this tired arguement?

>The only Guard in Chinese martial arts is the one where you wrap your legs around the guy and SQUEEZE real hard while yelling for the police.

This is called "clipping" but you can do more that just squeeze. Know what you fucking screaming about. And WHO did you ask? Surely not me so this "I asked for proof a 1000 times" don't matter dick to me. I am more than willing to send you any info I have.

>William Cheung sure knew alot about this guard when Emin Boztepe slapped his face and then threw him to the ground like 2 grade school kids on a playground huh? And Cheung is a Grandmaster. Hes from China. There is no groundfighting in Kung Fu. I cant BELIEVE people still believe this crap! Its NUTS!


And I can't believe that you are still stuck on the Emin & Chueng ****. THAT IS NUTS!!! ITS BEEN TEN FUCKING YEARS LET IT GO!!!
Well since they put Kimura's video on the board I guess I can say the BJJ is **** and Judo will beat it everytime eventhough its been over 50 YEARS!!! Does that make sense? No it doesn't.

PD how well do you read chinese? I will email you scans on ground boxing. I do have one bilingual book but the edition is 1987 (correction the original english edition is 1984. Don't know when the orginal chinese edition was) so I guess that doesn't count, right.

BTW Are you French or of French descent, PD? Just curious.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!




Edited by - Asia on August 16 2002 05:17:01

Edited by - Asia on August 16 2002 05:29:14

Edited by - Asia on August 16 2002 06:40:15

LMAO! This asia guy is a riot! What a clown.

PD- Don't bother making him look stupid... he's doing just fine.

"people who say that GJJ is the same as Judo are going to look pretty stupid."


I dont think anyone has said that GJJ is the same as Judo. They may be similar in some areas considering BJJ evolved from Judo and other ground fighting arts. This doesnt mean that BJJ will win against Judo or that Judo will beat BJJ. About tradition in Judo it does keep it from being a more sufficient art sometimes.

And now Knifer is back to spread his idiocy. I actually dont mind it because at least hes TRYING to make sense and not just putting up B.S. threads to make everyone notice him.

Does anyone here know the history of BJJ? I doubt it.

How long did Maeda teach Carlos Gracie for? How about 3 years. The rest was innovated on their own. How abut when Kano sent 2 of his representatives to the states, one of which was Maeda, and the SENIOR of the 2 got taken down and helplessly pinned by a simple Wrestler at west Point?

Does anyone know why the Art Maedo taught Carlos Gracie was DIFFERENT that Judo and how it came to be CALLED Jiu Jitsu when Maeda was a JUDO practitioner and a STUDENT of Kano?

Maeda FOUGHT thruout the U.S.. He fought against the ONLY 2 martial arts around at the time. Take a wild guess what they were. THATS why his art became so effective. He abandoned the name JUDO and returned to Jiu Jitsu.

The Gracies abandoned Judo's rigid rules structure because it hindered the growth of the students.

Kano's WHOLE INNOVATION was to allow a practice called 'Randori'. He advocated freestyle use of techniques against RESISTING opponents. Something that was pretty much unheard of at the time. When Judo later met Jiu Jitsu,Judo was victorious and became Japan's national sport as a result.

Kano's whole idea was to remove things that SEEMED deadly but couldn't be practiced i a realistic way. What was left was basically Judo. Dont think because he considered those techniques not to be DEADLY that those techniques were not EFFECTIVE. Kano believed it was better to practice effective techniques full power than to practice 'deadly' techniques unrealistically.

As a RESULT BJJ was formed as by JUST THE WAY it was practiced it led to the development of new techniques and the refinement of others just to cope with the change of rules. Pretty much no other art was practicing the same way as BJJ so they techniques found in BJJ are different from most other arts altho BASED in Judo. Even TODAY they're are techniques being developed in Brazil to match the furios competition pace and these techniques are exclusive to that art.

If you guys want info on that stuff Email Kid Peligro. Hes a scholar on the subject. He's written books and is very knowledgable. If you REALLY want to lear then Email him. f you just want to argue than keep talking to me because nothing I could ever say will you take as truth.



"Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, ****** mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).

Right after the early UFC's Judo Experts came out of the wood-work preaching that Judo is BJJ with more throws! (Unfortunately some fools still believe this to a large extent!)

The purpose was to prevent everyone quitting Judo and heading for their nearest BJJ Dojo, but to anyone educated it's obvious BJJ has evolved FAR PAST limited Judo and as such will continue to be generally the better system for MMA!

Also, is it possible Yoshida will train in BJJ to supplement his Judo to prevent Royce from submitting him?

I am sure Yoshida has seen every tape of a "NHB" event featuring Royce in preparation for the match. If he is smart he will know quite a bit about BJJ going into the match.

Royce may not have a tape of what Yoshida's "NHB" style will look like but I am sure he will study Yoshida's Olympic footage.

Royce has more experience in "NHB" but that may prove to be a dissadvantage since people know what to expect from him now. I doubt it though.

It will be a good match up.

my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!

Hello

I'm new to this forum,but Peeddeeshoalin I do have the info you seek
it's in Kodokan Judo by Jigoro Kano. Here I'll give a brief example from the book and traditional jujitsu.


BJJ/GJJ----Guard----- Side Mount
TJJ/Judo---Do-jime-----Yoko shiho gatame
Others---scissor lock-----across side




Edited by - juji-gatame on August 17 2002 05:05:13

Son of Knifer is a LIAR!!!

He CANT be the son of Knifer: Knifer has NEVER gotten LAID! And we all KNOW that MEN cant give birth yet. That technology just isnt here yet.

A FRAUD exposed!

"Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, ****** mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).

WHOA!! These insults are getting my blood up on a
Sat. morning. Everybody should calm down. There are alot of valid points being made here. Please don't turn this place into Shercrap or the UG.

The only true idiot is Knifer/Son of..etc. He will make a semi-valid point and then slam BJJ with a bullshit story about a 'friend who got stabbed trying to use it' and 'he died in my car' blah blah blah.

That is the type of crap people should use their talents to flame on. This thread was good for a flow of information, just too many insults.