A lot of us around here have respect for what you guys do. Yes, you guys do historical recreations, but you're trying to do it in an alive manner as it would have been done when people were sincerely trying to use those weapons in war.

Yes, exactly. The historical treatises are our source, but we are developing a modern discipline that is free from any role-play, costuming, etc. We are also huge advocates of drilling and sparring at speed with real intent, using realistic training weapons. This is often derided as "too dangerous" or "unecessary" by many of our detractors. The simple fact is, many techniques can only be understood and used effectively when practiced at realistic energy levels with appropriate force and momentum. If you can't do it in sparring, you haven't really learned it!

I know this has been pondered before so I am just revisiting.

I often wonder why some pple take great intrest in a hobby that they will NEVER use. By this I mean all the pple who go to advanced survival uber spec ops training camps or Dai himitsu cho ninpo sleep away camp where they dress up and do alot of things the will never really use. And some of those things cost out the whazoo. Now I can see paying money to go to BJJ seminar if you take BJJ to compete, fitness, or self defense. Or flying to Thailand or China to train since it is likely you can use what you learned in a situation.



Or paying $100 a month for the privelage of dressing up in something resembling pajamas, flailing your arms and legs around and feigning subservience to some guy who dleivers sells tires at Sears during the day a few times a week to learn to be a "warrior".

How are we defining this exactly? If we're defining this by whether or not you'll use it, then it means that any form of martial arts training is a fantasy indulgence, no matter the methods, most of the time, unless you fight for money, teach martial arts for a living or don't have the social competence to go out for a drink without getting in a fistfight.

Personally, I've been on more canoe trips than streetfights, so I suppose that "wilderness survival training" would be *more* useful to me than martial arts training of any variety.

Maybe amateur competition qualifies as making training not-useless.

If, however, we define this as unrealistic training, it's just another variation of this site's thesis.

Now in one sense I out-nerd everybody here, since I actually write pen and paper RPG material for a living -- including LARP stuff. I have a few insights into the motivations of roleplayers that might apply here

1) Escapism is a part of it, but so is catharsis. There are lots of people who get into this sort of thing because it allows them to express themselves in ways they wouldn't be able to in a real identity.

This is true in any martial art, really, regardless of training quality. I can go, kick people and armbar them a couple of times a week. In the rest of my day to day life, this would be frowned upon as a way of expresing my anger or enthusiasm.

2) RPGs are simpler and more fair than real life. They provide a comforting sense of control over one's environment. The basic conceit of every financially successful game is that the characters are exceptional and are rewarded/punished based solely on their own efforts. There is no successful game where your wizard can't make 10th level because he can't afford ivy-league wizard school or spends valuable time making horseshoes on the side to support a partner and two kids. Every game that has attempted to buck the trend has bombed.

Now this is where you get loopy people. The fantasy martial arts narrative is basically: "Learn this trick and kick ass." There are no complications such as getting ripped off, not training hard enough, lacking raw talent or anything else. You just pay and get to play.

3) Successful RPGs exploit the fact that as a society, we've been mostly conditioned by stories about exceptional individuals -- not by realist stories of the disjointed ups and downs of life. There are no successful RPGs about people who work in cubicles.

As a result (and because this drive is not limited to RPGs), we look around for a reason to be exceptional. In some ways this is a good thing, because you have people who bring it back down to earth in martial arts because they don't want the standard no-contact dojo experience. You have people looking for better techniques and methods. But you also have people who want the easy way (because of #2, above) and want to think of themselves as exceptional because of their Dim Mak or whatever. In fact, Dim Mak is a "perfect" tool for this, because it can never be tested.

Speaking of LARP, I had a flashback to that vid of guy throwning sticks and yelling "Lightning bolts! lightning bolts! lightnings bolts!"...immediately followed by my mind picturing an overweight man badly dressed in ninja gear yelling "Side Kick! Side Kick! Side Kick!" =p

EDIT: http://www.milkandcookies.com/article/2173/ In case you haven't seen teh vid.

"DEATH!"
"ROOT!"

Um yeah... eh hem.

You know I really don't have a problem with the people who do martial arts as a "hobby" as in they do it because they want to do it and to learn and be able to appreciate the art. I mean you don't have to own a shop to appreciate a 1000hp car.

It's the people who do the arts and think that they're bad asses that piss me off. It's like the faggots with huge park-bench aluminum wings on their, cut springs, 130hp, piece of **** car. They're the same thing, they THINK that they're fast, these LARPers THINK that they can kick ass.

At the current moment, I'm opening up my studio as an open gym, allowing anybody to come in, so that we can show them how useful their teh de4dly is.

Example: Just yesterday, one of the regulars found out that there's a ninjutsu guy that works with him, but he won't hand to hand spar with us because he said, and I quote: "Ninjutsu is made to kill and do it in secret, I can't spar you guys because I don't want to hurt you."

BUT, he will spar with shinai. WTF is that?

He doesn't think any of you know how to use a shinai, at least as well as he thinks he does.

Aren't there any street corners with out of work kendo guys? I see plenty with Mexicans.

How are we defining this exactly? If we're defining this by whether or not you'll use it, then it means that any form of martial arts training is a fantasy indulgence, no matter the methods, most of the time, unless you fight for money, teach martial arts for a living or don't have the social competence to go out for a drink without getting in a fistfight.

Personally, I've been on more canoe trips than streetfights, so I suppose that "wilderness survival training" would be *more* useful to me than martial arts training of any variety.

A person is more likely to get into a physical altercation where MA training can be a useful skill than being stranded in the wilderness for someone living in the city. Someone can attack you without your consent. That is much better than spending hundred to thousands on a course that you will mostly likely NOT be in a situation to use it. ie a survival course when you live in downtown ATL and don't ever plan on venturing into the wilderness. Now in your case you are venturing out into mother nature so it would be of use to you.

He doesn't think any of you know how to use a shinai, at least as well as he thinks he does.

Aren't there any street corners with out of work kendo guys? I see plenty with Mexicans.

Yeah I made sure not to tell him about one of the guys who spars with us regularly who just happens to be a 3rd Dan in Kendo.

Whoops. Heh. We'll get video of this IF the damn ninja shows up.

A person is more likely to get into a physical altercation where MA training can be a useful skill than being stranded in the wilderness for someone living in the city. Someone can attack you without your consent. That is much better than spending hundred to thousands on a course that you will mostly likely NOT be in a situation to use it. ie a survival course when you live in downtown ATL and don't ever plan on venturing into the wilderness. Now in your case you are venturing out into mother nature so it would be of use to you.

Dude, you've obviously NEVER read Walking Dead. You need to pick that up.

Whoops. Heh. We'll get video of this IF the damn ninja shows up.

If it's a real ninja, his going to kill you to keep ninja secret safe from being recorded!

Dude, you've obviously NEVER read Walking Dead. You need to pick that up.

The Kirkman zombie comic? :eatbaby:

Yes! The kirkman zombie comic > * right now.

Also, one of the characters in that comic oddly reminds me of you. Except that he's a football player, not a big meanie face.

I hate martial artists. I've decided to be glad that people call what I do "Boxing" or "Wrestling" or "that UFC stuff" or "oilchecking"