Well I was rolling a few days ago in Jiu Jitsu, and attempted a firemen's carry even though I knew better, and quite frankly I go anhilliated for it. Later on my instructor(guy who I was rolling with) told me that sure the firemen's carry is a great takedown in wrestling, but something like a Japanese Whizzer would be alot more effective. Well I suppose I could ask him or Brock, but I know I'll probably forget during roll time, so I was wondering if someone can explain to me basically what one?


Also, another question, I need opinions, well wrestling season is coming up in about another month and a half to 2 months, and with 5 day a week practices for wrestling, I'm debating if I should still bother to go to BJJ while wrestling is going on, or just wait until the season is over and start BJJ up again?

"jap whizzer"

Searching for pictures now...

Yes, it's wizzer or whizzer. THere is also a polish variant.

Alright, no wonder I couldn't find any pictures or find it in any technique pages on the net.

http://judoinfo.com/images/nauta/seoinage.gif

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ipponseoi.htm


this is ippon seoinage. Essentially the same technique (only sans gi). As the rules of folk and freestyle wrestling do not permit slamming an opponent, it is also done typically by dropping to the knees.

SOrry I couldn't get an official wrestling picture.

I say drop BJJ for a while. Not only will you save money, you'll come back stronger, faster, etc etc. And because you're just purely wrestling, you'll be able to focus on your pins, positioning and other stuff. When you come back into BJJ you can focus on whatever's left. I say it's better to master one thing first then move on.

This thread is screaming for someone to take advantage of it with pictures....


ARE THERE NO JAPANESE WIZARDS OUT THERE???

O.k, a couple of things.

I'm not sure what you're instructor means by a "japanese Wizzer".

Wizzer is a wrestling term. A wizzer is simply an overhook from the standing position, where you rotate your hips out and use leverage to control your opponent. It's a great defense/counter against a shot.

As for a "'japanese Wizzer", I was always under the impression that a japanese Wizzer was basically a drop seoinage, obviously done with no gi. This is what a wrestler is referring to when he says "'japanese wizzer".

I have a feeling you were not executing the Fireman's Carry properly.

In my opinion, if your goal is to get the guy to the ground (as opposed to slamming him), the wrestling version of the Fireman's Carry is far superior to the Judo version (kata Guruma). I also believe the wrestling version of the Fireman's Carry is superior to a Japanese Wizzer, because it's much more difficult to defend against. The Japanese Wizzer is not an easy throw to perfect. It involves a great deal of timing and kuzushi, more so than a lot of wrestling throws.

As for wrestling and BJJ, I would usually drop by the dojo once a week or every other week when I was wrestling. Sometimes I would miss a few weeks, but I never stopped entirely during the season. However, I was certainly not able to train enough to get much out of it, it was more about just making an appearance and bullshitting with the guys. Then again, I wasn't paying either, they'd just let me train when I wanted to. Wrestling takes way too much time. Between practice and meets, you'll be training 5 or 6 days a week for up to 3 hours a day.

However, don't decide not to wrestle b/c it will interfere with BJJ. In the end, should you wrestle 3 or 4 years, you'll eventually be much better at BJJ than you ever would have been without the wrestling experience. And, for most of us, high school is the only opportunity you'll have to wrestle with that kind of intensity and frequency, so take advantage of it if you can. You'll develop mat feel, reflexes and a mental toughness that you'll never lose.

However, don't decide not to wrestle b/c it will interfere with BJJ. In the end, should you wrestle 3 or 4 years, you'll eventually be much better at BJJ than you ever would have been without the wrestling experience. And, for most of us, high school is the only opportunity you'll have to wrestle with that kind of intensity and frequency, so take advantage of it if you can. You'll develop mat feel, reflexes and a mental toughness that you'll never lose.

For the second time I must concur with lawdog. The first was in another thread. I was a high school wrestler and I do think it helped me quite a bit when I transitioned to Bjj. Initially I had a few bad habits to be sure, like giving people my back so I didn't get pinned, RNC anyone? For the most part though I had a much better understanding of a good base and leverage than your average beginner white belt.

Don't quit either, just put Bjj on the back burner until wrestling season ends.

I was a high school wrestler and I do think it helped me quite a bit when I transitioned to Bjj. Initially I had a few bad habits to be sure, like giving people my back so I didn't get pinned, RNC anyone?
Yeah, I definitely know that feeling. Even though I was a judoka before I wrestled, I still picked up those "bad habits". I got choked and arm barred endlessly when I was in high school b/c of that.

It doesn't take long to correct it though. After wrestling, it only took a few months to learn to protect my neck and arms. I will say though that even to this day, and I'm 38, I still haven't learned to like being on my back. Fortunately, however, in judo that's o.k, b/c we still have to worry about getting "pinned".

I am two years younger than you and I got to tell you, the notion of saying I wrestled 20 years ago and that referencing my senior year is a little surreal to me. I do look forward to wearing black socks with shorts though.

The Reaper, I suggest you to cut as little weight as possible to make weight. Even if you have to move up a weight class to do it. I believe that cutting weight when you're still growing can stunt your growth to some extent. My only data to support this is a pair of twins I knew in high school. One wrestled and one did not. The wrestler was still trying to make 132 lbs. as a senior. He did this for three years. When they graduated the wrestler was 5'8" at maybe 150. His brother that didn't wrestle was 6'1" and 175ish, and yes they were identical. Now I realize that one case is hardly a statistical example, but I doubt we will have many volunteers for a study resembling the example above. So it's really just my interpretation of the facts. FWIW

I've never been a real insane cutter as far as wrestling goes, especially this year since I"m trying to bulk up to 185-190 from the 173 I am right now. I usually only drop 5lbs tops during wrestling season, while other kids I know live off of jello and water for days on end and run with about 6 layers of sweats on to drop like 10lbs in a week.

However, don't decide not to wrestle b/c it will interfere with BJJ. In the end, should you wrestle 3 or 4 years, you'll eventually be much better at BJJ than you ever would have been without the wrestling experience. And, for most of us, high school is the only opportunity you'll have to wrestle with that kind of intensity and frequency, so take advantage of it if you can. You'll develop mat feel, reflexes and a mental toughness that you'll never lose.
I dunno, if the end game is bjj or mma, wouldn't he be better off with 3 years of bjj rather than 3 years of wrestling? Your conditioning won't be as good but your technique would be better.

Did I miss a memo about the fireman's carry? I use it all the time and it works just fine for me.

For those of you that have trained in submission wrestling while also training/competing in wrestling, did you have any trouble switching back and forth?

I've done both but not at the same time. This season I'm going to keep training in submission wrestling so I hope I don't end up trying to use the guard etc. during a wrestling match.

Ask the younger Gracie boys. I heard they are on their highschool wrestling teams.

Did I miss a memo about the fireman's carry? I use it all the time and it works just fine for me.

In the BJJ circle the firemans carry is regarded as a shitty takedown because you can be crucifixed, have your back taken, or have the inside arm broken right then and there. And if timed right I believe they are correct. But it has to do GREATLY with who is doing the takedown. There are wrestlers who are so fast with that **** - your not pulling that crap off on them.