I'm just trying to work out how long Paul O'Neal had been studying Wing Chun before you started taking lessons from him. His own site says he's been studying for 16 years, and you say you studied with him for 12, but he says he spent some of that time in Hong Kong studying under the Ip brothers.

That's very interesting. See my post on this thread (today) about some of jay cummins aka John Rockwell other claims with regard to MA study. :hello: John

For a guy who was trying to cast doubt on JFS credentials, he's going to look incredibly dumb if he both :-

A) Lied about his own training

B) Managed to pick an instructor for his invented training who himself turns out to have questionable credentials.

Please tell me there's a simple explanation Tao Yin Lee ?

I don't think your going to get a simple explanation about their training record.

But maybe Jay or Steve could enlighten us as to the source of their animosity against JFS?

Hey JFS, is H'ung Ga the same as Hung Gar? My knowledge of CMA is not that great.

Hey JFS, is H'ung Ga the same as Hung Gar? My knowledge of CMA is not that great.

Yes.

Several variations within HG as it is a fairly large system in terms of numbers of people involved in it.

Hong Kong Branches are typically a bit more upright in their stances ... footwork tends to be a bit more developed towards being nimble. Narrow streets = mobility stressed.

A lot of the Chinese Mainland & Toishan (Village) variants are deeper in their stances with expanisve footwork. John

Thanks JFS. Very informative.

But maybe Jay or Steve could enlighten us as to the source of their animosity against JFS?

Simple. Those two Ass Clowns came onto another forum and did a poltical hatchet job on a Man I call my Friend.

I took them to task on it and they mouth boxed thinking they were safe being in England while I live in Maryland, USA.

They didn't know I was scheduled to be on their side of the pond to give a Semiar and when I sprung the "good news" on them they both backed down when it came to confronting me in person. They have tried several "save face" lie tactics in the past and they all failed.

Neither jay cummins aka John Rockwell or steve kwan ever even met the Man they claim to idolize, Ho-Sing. He's dead. Nor have either of them EVER studied directly under Grandmaster Lee-Lien. On video tape, in his own living room, Lee-Lien states in English and in Hakka that I was his USA Representative.

On video, in his own back yard, Lee-Lien is shown personally teaching me the Roads (the 1 unified Set of his SPM hand).

On video, in his own back yard, I closed down Lee-Lien 4 times in a row when he tested my hands.

jay and steve claim to be LYS Pai, yet the fact that the one they call Grandmaster has blessed off on my SPM being "good" is something they repeatedly deny and lie about. They disrespect my Friend, me, their so called Sifu, and the one they claim as the living lineage holder to the Lee Wing Sing Hakka Tong Long System.

Bottom line: jay cummins aka John Rockwell and steve kwan have been mouth boxing on the Internet for over a year now on this matter. Since they backed down, lied and continue to gut out when it comes to facing me in person I've carefully, methodically, lured them onto Bullshido after looking over the Bullshido format.

Here, on Bullshido, things are a bit different. Here, claims are investigated, and people subjected to in person testing of their claims.

I look forward to Evil Asia's visit on 9/17 ... our gong sau challenge match and the Maryalnd Throwdown on 9/18.

jay cummins aka John Rockwell and steve "chicken-neck" kwan are now hating life.
Even for those two 'tards it must be clear that their Internet Warrior days just came to a screeching halt :qgreenjum

Bullshido takes the BS out of b.s'ers and those two are all blow ... no go ... except for them going into hiding whenever I'm in England :thumbsup: John

John,
thanks for clearing that up. It'll be interesting to see if they can respond to your post or any of the issues that Cullion has raised.

Like I said, I'm not holding my breath

It seems JFS USA's stock is rising on Bullshido right now, anyone now think he will come out winner in the clash with Asia?

It seems JFS USA's stock is rising on Bullshido right now, anyone now think he will come out winner in the clash with Asia?

In speaking with him, EA and I are of a similar nature and history. In a sense, there can't be any loser in this thing as when it comes to really putting it on the line it's a pure learning experience.

Win - win situation ... painful to go through but that's how we are as people.

EA and Bullshido peeps are more than welcome to "score" it as they deem appropriate. We have decent video coverage on board which will be loaded onto Bullshido. I love this place.

Personally, I'm just looking forward to being able to let loose and do it as that's a very rare thing for someone my age. Seems no one wants to let the "old guys" play any more. John

hey cullion, pox....
just finished training so jay won't be posting until later tonight...
i had a quick read of what you posted up. I'm not and have not studied under paul o'neill so i cant say a lot on his lineage etc....

Our problem with jack is that he claimed he studied LYS SPM (the style we are studying) and called himself US representative. He and his video sifu, steven richards, then went on to the internet and started bad mouthing everyone and everything, using our styles name as a banner.

Hence we were pretty pissed off that they were dragging the name through mud...

Our source if you like comes from jack himself and steven richards, his SPM video sifu, as they use to post on a SPM forum and we just basically saved it.

Our sifu, eddie berry, studied under a man called Ho Sing, he was a well known man in kung fu cricles and in the 80's he died. Steven richards having never learnt off Ho sing himself, asked eddie berry to teach him the SPM that was passed down form Ho sing. Eddie berry, the same man that jack likes to slag off, taught steve richards for a little while (not too sure but i think it was less than a year), who then taught jack via video.

After much bickering on the SPM forum, we decided to go and see the man who is the lineage holder, GM Lee Lien, who is the son of the the man who invented the style. After speaking to him, we found out he had no idea what steve and jack had been doing. In fact he didnt even know that they were using photo's as their proof, i.e steven richards website etc. He told us that he hadnt even taught steve richards much and only went to his school to have a look around.

So basically, steve richards hadnt learnt from Ho sing, Learnt little off eddie berry, learnt a little off GM Lee Lien, and decdied to carry the banner of LYS kung fu on his own, whilst making some kind of monetary gain by making up lies. steven richards even wrote a book ( that was not shown to GM Lee Lien until we showed him) saying GM Lee Lien was the founder of hop gar mantis, which is a hybrid steve richards made up. Selling his training videos, teaching people stuff that are basically rubbish, letting them have the title of sifu under the LYS banner all behind GM Lee Liens back, he made quite a bit of money...... and he didnt even buy GM Lee Lien a meal at a restaurant!

Well now that GM Lee Lien knows of his activities steve richards was thrown out of LYS pai with immediate effect. Jack decided to continue defending his video sifu, why, you have to ask him.

hope that answers some of your questions... if not ask away....

sorry pox... the SPM forum where all the bickering was has now been made redundant... pity because you would have seen from the start, where jack and stevey R claimed how they were like family to GM Lee Lien etc etc, to the end, where they were thrown out of LYS pai

You guys are worse than any WC practictioners ever will be in terms of lineage wars. It sounds like a freakin 1980's chop sake movie, Your Kung Fu is weak! My Kung Fu is strong! I will defeat you! Let's fight!

Hi John,
sorry if this has been asked already - but is there a link to any of the chats on the SPM forum?

I think the old SPM forum has archived the "good stuff" and trashed the trash ... might be some flames still burning ... don't know.

tonglongforums.cjg.net

Here's where they currently hang out ... you can contact the MODS on this link and tell them I directed you to them.

http://www.kotengu.f2o.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi

Here's a URL to some stuff from the 4/24/05 GB Seminar:

http://www.tonglong.co.uk/index.php?categoryid=3 Scroll down and click on the Master Jon Springer Seminar ... photos and some other things. Nish owns this site. He was at the Seminar and my Guest at last year's Chinese New Year Celebration. He's been "inside the door" most round eyes don't know exists much less have ever seen.

Oh yeah, for the 'tard that put down the peeps that were my Guests by inferring "anyone" could have done it and went so far as to "ask" how much the tickets cost read carefully:

Any one can come "inside the door" ... we will always let you in. It's how you will leave that might give a person reason to pause. You will leave via the 3rd story window ... head first. Doubt it? Just bring your snotty nose self to 22 Mott Street, NYC on Chinese New Year and ask for Master Springer. You will become a believer ... too late.

As for the Formal Banquet ... strictly Members and their pre-designated Guests. There are NO tickets. John

sorry pox... the SPM forum where all the bickering was has now been made redundant... pity because you would have seen from the start, where jack and stevey R claimed how they were like family to GM Lee Lien etc etc, to the end, where they were thrown out of LYS pai

Produce the letter of disassociation ... as you said you would do ... about a year ago now ... it must have Lee-Lien's signature and chop as that is in accordance with tradition. Can't produce it? Guess what? It doesn't exist. :llorar:

Get it right chicken-neck. Both Steven and I left the so called LYS Pai and Ellie acknowledged it in personal Emails.

BTW, 'tard boy, there now is NO LYS Pai. I ended it when you all mouth boxed and then failed to make good on your threats to kick my "fat, bald headed old ass." That message went out to the PRC, HK, and Taiwan a while back. Where's your Pai? Some dinky nowhere place isolated from the main body of ethnic Chinese, a laughing stock ... with how many "members" now? 3 or 5? :5baby:

The questions facing you on this forum center on your inability to provide the names of "all" those BJJ, MMA, MT ... guys you defeated in "sparring" as you claim to have NEVER been beaten in sparring. Waiting.

Seems jay cummins aka John Rockwell has run into a bit of a problem with his WC claims. Seems your WC posts went down the toilet with his or do you claim someone else as your WC Sifu? I mean, given your forcefully stated positions on WC you have formally studied the method, correct? :qright1: John

You guys are worse than any WC practictioners ever will be in terms of lineage wars. It sounds like a freakin 1980's chop sake movie, Your Kung Fu is weak! My Kung Fu is strong! I will defeat you! Let's fight!

Well jeesh, Yrkoon9, I'm crossing hands with EA on the 17th and then doing a Throwdown with around 8 guys on the 18th. What the hell do you want from me? John