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Quikfeet509
6/28/2005 6:54pm,
There was an article in Muscle Media (don't laugh bitches) around 97' or 98' that talked about doing stretching or a light full range stretching exercise after warming up with weights. This was supposed to stretch the "muscle bags" that can inhibit muscular growth. The article also had some macronutrient cycle diet that I never heard about again...

I started doing a set of full range db flyes after a set of heavy db press and it seemed to help my chest grow (when I started lifting, I was much smaller than Akira).

Oh I just found a link to the article:

http://www.musclemedia.com/training/abcde/v59_abc2.asp

BP: Another thing you mentioned in Part 1 of this interview was something called "bag enlargement," which apparently has something to do with stretching the connective tissue around muscle fibers in order to enhance growth. How did you come up with this theory?

TA: The "bag theory" is not mine--it was developed by a scientist named D.J. Millward, a well-known researcher who has extensively studied the muscle-building process. His immense knowledge and research could help a lot of bodybuilders. Basically, Millward has observed three things: 1) the almost unlimited extent to which increased food intake can promote protein deposition during "catch-up growth" in malnourished patients, 2) both active and passive stretch will mediate anabolic and anti-catabolic influences, and 3) the cessation of normal muscle growth coincides with the cessation of bone growth.

There are "connective sheets" surrounding the individual muscle fiber [endomysium], bundles of muscle cells [perimysium], and the entire muscle [epimysium]. These sheets can be thought of as a series of "bags" acting to conduct the contractile force generated by actin and myosin in muscle fibers to the bone by the tendon.

Millward postulates that bag filling and enlargement may increase muscle development. You see, these bags have a minimum elasticity, at least compared to the cell membranes they enclose, so they'll actually inhibit muscle growth--you might think of them as very tight "girdles" that prevent the expansion of tissue.

BP: Doesn't "cell volumizing" help stretch these bags?

TA: Not really. The anabolic state of the muscle fiber does depend on its state of hydration, which is secondary to the amount of osmotic [the ability to attract water] substances in the cells, such as sodium, potassium, creatine, proteins, glycogen, and free amino acids like glutamine.9 The anabolic phase of my program is designed to maximize this cell-volumizing effect. Within a few days of starting a properly supplemented, high-calorie anabolic phase, your cells will be jam-packed with the aforementioned nutrients and intracellular triglycerides. They'll be "volumized" to the max. A cell will literally swell to fill the entire space of its connective-tissue compartment or, as Millward calls it, "bag." You'll feel "pumped" even when you're not training.

Interestingly, Millward believes that when this occurs, it will elicit a signal to reduce the appetite--this is just one of many regulatory feedback mechanisms that limit the rate of growth in mammals. This means that a few days into the anabolic/bulking phase of my program, you will probably not have a ferocious appetite, but you must keep eating if you want to grow!

Now, to build extraordinary muscle mass, you need to somehow stretch this "girdle" that confines your muscle tissue. The osmotic gradient over the cell membrane is not strong enough to stretch this tissue all that much; however, the blood rushing into the muscle during resistance training [i.e., the pump] is strong enough to stretch these bags to some extent. This is how "the pump" contributes to muscle growth. It seems, as Arnold and many other famous bodybuilders have reported, the pump is associated with muscle growth. This is very likely due to the compartmental stretching or expansion that is induced by this swelling of muscles while they're trained and full of blood.

Millward confirms "...a key feature of skeletal muscle growth appears to be that it is limited by connective-tissue growth, which controls myofiber diameter and length." Somehow you must stretch this connective tissue--this tight girdle around muscle tissue--to experience dramatic muscle growth. This is very important. All bodybuilders must do this.
Show me a "natural" bodybuilder who is big, muscular, and cut, and you will show me a bodybuilder who has either used steroids in the past and/or has been overeating in the past; thus, he increased his potential for muscle growth by stretching the space for myofibers at one time. Once you have already expanded the connective tissue around muscles, you can be natural with a more normal calorie intake while still being relatively big.

This is what "muscle memory" is really all about. People have talked about this for decades in bodybuilding circles. They make the observation that a bodybuilder who was big in the past is able to gain a significant amount of muscle size--let's say he builds up some muscular 19-inch arms, then he stops training for a few months and loses a lot of mass, and his arms atrophy to 161/2 inches. Whereas the first time it took him years to gain 2 1/2 inches of muscular mass on his arms, this time he'll be able to add that bulk back in only a couple of months with proper training, nutrition, and supplementation. The explanation for this "muscle-memory phenomenon" is that the connective tissue around the muscle fibers has been previously stretched; thus, rapid growth is possible.

BP: This makes sense. But, if you've never had 19-inch arms, how do you get this tissue to stretch?

TA: You have to bulk up at some point. In the past, as we've discussed, this usually meant going on prolonged periods of overfeeding, basically turning yourself into a blimp, and then cutting up--going on a brutal diet for months and months. Usually, these long, painful diets caused the loss of almost all the muscle mass you gained during the bulking phase, but they did serve one purpose--they stretched the connective tissue around the muscles.
We know that to maximize muscle growth we need to make sure the cell is properly hydrated and volumized. This is accomplished during the overfeeding phase of my Anabolic Burst Cycling program. Next, you need to get a good, solid pump during the workout and, beyond that, if you're looking for greater growth, you can now apply extreme stretching while being pumped.

The American bodybuilding coach John Parillo has made the same observation I have--that extreme stretching when the muscle is pumped, which he refers to as "fascia stretching," results in increased muscular growth. Research at Ohio State University also demonstrates that the amount of myosin heavy chains--a very important contractile protein in skeletal muscle--is increased by stretching.1 The result is obvious within a short period of time. Parillo's theory is that you stretch the fascia around the muscle which, according to him, is limiting muscle growth. However, research supports the idea that the endomysium and perimysium are involved in this limitation of growth--not necessarily the fascia.

What we are basically trying to do is further remodel that encumbering girdle around muscle tissue by stretching. This theory beautifully explains the perfect coordination between the lengthening of the skeleton--and thus a passive stretch of the connective tissue in muscle--and the increased muscle bulk in fast-growing teenagers. This is something few people think about, but when a teenager goes through rapid bone growth and experiences a dramatic increase in muscle mass during puberty, the muscle hypertrophy usually ends when the bones stop growing. Millward has documented that lean body mass increases in direct proportion to height in normal human beings.

Some "old-time" body-builders performed exercises with extreme stretching while they were pumped. I'm not sure how they figured out this was important, but some did. One of them was Arnold. He would perform dumbbell flyes on a flat bench in a relatively slow, high-rep manner after completely pumping up his chest. He could lower the dumbbells until they almost touched the floor! That's a brutal stretch. Was it a coincidence that Arnold built what was unarguably one of the most well-developed pair of pecs ever, in a day and age when steroid use was "minuscule" compared to what today's champs are using? I think not. Arnold used to really stretch out his lats while doing low rowing and high-cable pulldowns, too. And, he did pullovers which are an amazingly effective stretching exercise that you American lifters seem to have forgotten about.

You can stretch during your lifts and between them. But, I only recommend extreme stretching during the second week of the bulking phase of my system. This is when the muscles will get incredibly pumped, and recuperation will be maximal. The stretch-induced fusion and increased nuclei number peak within a week.15 This is one of the reasons to limit the use of extreme stretching to one week.

Another stimulus for remodeling is the breakdown of connective tissue during eccentric training. I recommend your readers review Charles Poliquin's article on this subject in the January 1996 issue of MM2K ( The Science of Eccentric Training) and your article on this topic in the April 1996 issue (A Sure Thing in a World of Confusion).

By the way, to support the formation of new connective tissue after you've damaged it by pumping up and stretching, I would recommend that you take at least one gram of Vitamin C before your workouts and make sure your total daily intake is at least three grams. There is evidence that Vitamin C not only supports hydroxylation in collagen synthesis but also works almost as a growth factor in the synthesis of connective tissue.8

Anyway, through proper eccentric training and stretching while being pumped, you will damage the connective tissue and force it to further remodel into a "larger bag." The stretching of the fiber will stimulate membrane-bound enzyme complexes which will trigger a release of growth factors such as TGF-beta, FGF, and IGF-1 from the muscle.13 These growth factors are all important for remodeling and synthesis of connective tissue. As I mentioned in Part 1 of this interview, IGF-1 and FGF stimulate the development of satellite cells and their fusion with muscle fibers to deliver nuclei, thus, new muscle mass, so long as the inner environment is optimal, which it is during the end of the anabolic phase.

Millward's theory, combined with my Anabolic Burst Cycling theory, beautifully explains what happens during puberty. To start with, there is an increase in testosterone and growth hormone. This, together with intracellular triglycerides, as mentioned earlier, will increase the amount of insulin the body releases. Insulin is the main factor responsible for transporting osmotic substances, such as glucose, amino acids, and creatine, into muscle fibers, which is why people are seeing such great results while taking creatine monohydrate with an insulin-releasing carbohydrate. Hence, the muscle will swell. At the same time, growth hormone is contributing to an increase in bone length; thus, a passive stretch is placed on the muscle with local IGF-1 being released. Since both GH and its insulin levels are elevated, IGF-1 production in the liver is stimulated, which adds further growth to the whole body. Are you beginning to get the picture?

During the anabolic phase of my ABCDE system, we mimic the mechanisms of pubescent metabolism. You may think I'm nagging about puberty, but I cannot emphasize enough the importance of trying to replicate this natural phenomenon. During puberty, you put on muscle, even without training, and on top of that, you keep this muscle for virtually your whole life. That's the type of quality growth that's possible with my new system.



Edit: for ugly paste

Quikfeet509
6/28/2005 7:02pm,
All fibers are capable of hypertrophy to one extent or another so training in a method that can hit all of them for hyertrophy would be your best option. Also, muscle fiber type is determined by taking a muscle biopsy and then using one of various methods to determine the protein content of the cell itself.

The proteins within the cell have much more to do with the function of that cell than the fiber type. For example, you can have one of 6 different types of myosin all with different contraction velocities and still show the same fiber type histochemically. Annoying right? Also, there is no guarentee that one muscle is going to have the same protein composition as another or that they are even the same within the same muscle as we do see some grouping of fibers within certain muscles in the body.

Train for the goals you have and you will be fine... We all have genetic limitations...



So using low reps and multiple sets for hamstrings because they tend to be mostly fast twitch [in most people] and using high reps for quads because they tend to be mostly slow twitch isn't very beneficial?

What about the idea that certain types of exercise can stress fibers to convert into a different fiber type? If they can, is it really that important? Are you sick of answering questions?

jwinch2
6/28/2005 7:10pm,
So using low reps and multiple sets for hamstrings because they tend to be mostly fast twitch [in most people] and using high reps for quads because they tend to be mostly slow twitch isn't very beneficial?

Not if training for strength in the quads or hypertrophy in the hamstrings is your goal. Train for what YOU want to accomplish.


What about the idea that certain types of exercise can stress fibers to convert into a different fiber type? If they can, is it really that important?

There are ample data to suggest that fibers can be converted within their histochemical classification ie, type 1 or 2 but much less to suggest that they can make the jump from 1 to 2 or vice versa.

And really, of much more importance is the types of proteins within the fibers as they are what is responsible for the contraction and structure of the muscle cells anyway. You can have massive changes in the functions of proteins within a cell and still have it show up chemically as a type 2b for example. Fiber typing is based on chemical markers and is not a representation of the contractile properties of a cell but rather a broad estimation of the likely properties. With training, this kind of goes out the window a little bit.


Are you sick of answering questions?

not too much :icon_bigg , i like what I do and I enjoy helping people...

baofuhaibo
6/28/2005 7:41pm,
Look at what other qualified C.S.C.S. said "change the stimulus to improve muscle growth and strength" what did I say? "Change the stimulus to improve muscle growth and strength". I said it in dumbass-speak, because your a dumbass, then you started crying and removed the picture from your profile because your ugly.

Equipoise
6/28/2005 8:16pm,
Ronin, is it possible to make Bao a custom title that says "Village Idiot" ?

jwinch2
6/28/2005 8:20pm,
Look at what other qualified C.S.C.S. said ...

Please don't insinuate that you are certified CSCS. You have to have a degree in exercise or sport science before you can even SIT for that exam. And the failure rate is about 76% for those who take it.

I think you mean well, but you calling yourself qualified at this point in your career is wrong and offensive to someone like me who has been busting my ass while trying to make it in this field since you were 5 years old...

Equipoise
6/28/2005 8:28pm,
Jwinch- Can you tell me what exactly causes hypertrophy and the point of it? Thx for the articles, I'm reading them now.

jwinch2
6/28/2005 8:32pm,
Akira,

Muscle hypertrophy is caused by one of four things:


1 - cell hypertrophy where the size of the cell gets bigger...

2 - cell hyperplasia, where we get more cells due to activation of sattelite cells.

3 - Addition of muscle sarcomeres in a series. Basically the ration of muscle to tendon changes as the muscle gets longer.

4 - changes in muscle architechture other than length. one example would include angle of pinnation. if you change the orientation of the muscle fibers with respect to the tendon you can see changes in muscle volume without really adding any tissue

Equipoise
6/28/2005 9:09pm,
2. I've heard that muscle hyperplasia, I guess the myofibrilliars themselves multiplying, is impossible, is that true?

3. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, that since the muscle is getting longer their is a greater need for more fluid within the muscles? Are Sarcomeres little sacks of fluid for individual fibers? How does that work exactly?

4. I have no idea what angle of pinnation is, can you explain that to me? Is this hitting a particular muscle from a different position or method such as incline or decline bench in comparison to the regular flat bench?

The first article I'm reading on periodization is fantastic, my knowledge is increasing 10 fold. Thanks many times over for them.

jwinch2
6/28/2005 9:14pm,
2. I've heard that muscle hyperplasia, I guess the myofibrilliars themselves multiplying, is impossible, is that true?

3. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, that since the muscle is getting longer their is a greater need for more fluid within the muscles? Are Sarcomeres little sacks of fluid for individual fibers? How does that work exactly?

4. I have no idea what angle of pinnation is, can you explain that to me? Is this hitting a particular muscle from a different position or method such as incline or decline bench in comparison to the regular flat bench?

The first article I'm reading on periodization is fantastic, my knowledge is increasing 10 fold. Thanks many times over for them.

There are 1000 page textbooks related to those questions. It would take me far too much time to try to explain that sufficiently. So the short answer to your questions is here:

2 - no it is definately possible and in fact occurs all the time, see the thread related to hyperplasia where I posted on this.

3 - no, you are way off on this

4 - the orientation of the muscle fibers in respect to the muscle tendon

VikingPower
6/28/2005 9:35pm,
There are 1000 page textbooks related to those questions. It would take me far too much time to try to explain that sufficiently. So the short answer to your questions is here:

2 - no it is definately possible and in fact occurs all the time, see the thread related to hyperplasia where I posted on this.

3 - no, you are way off on this

4 - the orientation of the muscle fibers in respect to the muscle tendon

I gotta say, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here, but man are we glad to have you :thumbsup: We had two posters who claimed were heavily involved in the exercise world but presented a lot of asinine opinions and vague answers to specific questions. It looks like we chased them off though, as neither have popped back up since.

It's good to see somebody who tells it up-front and gives a solid opinion :D

Quikfeet509
6/28/2005 11:05pm,
I gotta say, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here, but man are we glad to have you :thumbsup: We had two posters who claimed were heavily involved in the exercise world but presented a lot of asinine opinions and vague answers to specific questions. It looks like we chased them off though, as neither have popped back up since.

It's good to see somebody who tells it up-front and gives a solid opinion :D



Who was that?

Ronin
6/29/2005 7:04am,
lawdog,

For local musclular endurance you can recover in as little as 24 hours but I would probably stretch that out to 48 to be sure. For hypertrophy somewhere between 48 - 72 hours is probably about right on. For strength it is longer somewhere between 3 - 5 days. Many serious strength athletes only go really heavy once a week and do a second light day for the same body parts later in the week to allow themselves to recover more completely.

Make sure to combine it with appropriate rest times to be sure you are not over training...

Good question...

Now, add a high intensity MA workout into the mix and what do you get?
I do NOT go light or moderate in my MA, at best it is HIIT.
I feel the soreness in my body the day after my MA training.

The key question is, how do we mix ST with MA and get MAX benefits from BOTH ?

Mike Mentzer suggested that 1 st workout a week with his HD program, ex:
Deadlifts and weighted dips one workout
Next week - Squats and bench press

This gives the body a ST workout, yet only taxes the recovery system enough to get the job done.

thoughts ?

VikingPower
6/29/2005 7:16am,
Who was that?

AthGirl and Medio. Medio used to actually give some OK advice, but he'd try to cover it up with a lot of double-talk and Zen-like answers. AthGirl just denied common sense with a lot of her ideas.

jwinch2
6/29/2005 7:35am,
Now, add a high intensity MA workout into the mix and what do you get?
I do NOT go light or moderate in my MA, at best it is HIIT.
I feel the soreness in my body the day after my MA training.

The key question is, how do we mix ST with MA and get MAX benefits from BOTH ?

Mike Mentzer suggested that 1 st workout a week with his HD program, ex:
Deadlifts and weighted dips one workout
Next week - Squats and bench press

This gives the body a ST workout, yet only taxes the recovery system enough to get the job done.

thoughts ?

This is where the nuts and bolts of periodization come in to play. The short answer is that you try to mix your hard days in conditioning with your light days of sport or in this case MA training and along with way peak and taper at the right times to avoid overtraining.

I sent an article on this to Akira. If you want to PM me your e-mail I would more than happy to send it your way. It was written by the director of sports physiology at the olympic training center and he can do a much better job of explaining it then I can.

Just let me know!

Jason

jwinch2
6/29/2005 7:36am,
I gotta say, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here, but man are we glad to have you :thumbsup: We had two posters who claimed were heavily involved in the exercise world but presented a lot of asinine opinions and vague answers to specific questions. It looks like we chased them off though, as neither have popped back up since.

It's good to see somebody who tells it up-front and gives a solid opinion :D

Thanks! Always nice to be appreciated...