The Thompson: it does not "kick like a mule" as it is very heavy. However, the muzzle does climb after shooting a few rounds on full auto. On semi-auto it is fairly accurate, easy to keep shots on man sized targets out to 100.

The .45ACP, that the Thompson used, was not noted for its penetration. The .45ACP bullet would not penetrate a helmet at very close range. The 9mm that the Germans used in their machine pistols (MP38, MP40) was often hotly loaded and coupled with the smaller projectiles lead to greater penetration, including the "light saber" sea stories/bullshido told by GIs (bullets penetrating buildings, tanks, cutting telephone poles in half, other bullshit).

The BAR: the Browning Automatic Rifle was in caliber .30-'06 for the U.S. military. The FND was produced in several alternate calibers, including 8mm. The BAR was not produced in .50USMG. A water cooled version of the .50USMG was the M1921 and the famous air-cooled version is the M2 which is still in service.

The BAR is/was heavy. I prefer to shoot it from a bipod, however many in WWII took off their bipods and used them as rifles (as John Browning had intended).

El Tejon has caught the correct.

Originally posted by El Tejon
The BAR is/was heavy. I prefer to shoot it from a bipod, however many in WWII took off their bipods and used them as rifles (as John Browning had intended).
That doesn't surprise me. Back in the Reserves, I used work a lot with the F89 Minimi (Aussie variation of the US M249 SAW). For 'fire and movement' I'd just leave the bipod up and use it like a rifle. It's a bastard trying to crawl through scrub with the bipod down. Minimi's probably a fair bit lighter than the BAR though.

the full size minimis are around 15lbs, the bar is around 18. 20% weight difference, but a lot more than 20% more powerful ammo.

there's a quote from an old marine to the effect that firing a bar on the higher speed full auto setting is like dancing like a fat chick - you can nudge her a bit from side to side, but in the end, she's going to go where she wants to go!

(tommy gun is around 10lbs. you'd think the modern ones would be lighter, but no...)

Hmmm somewhat unrelated question, but which one was insprired by the other; Suomi SMG or Thompson... I've read both opinions, does anyone actually KNOW?

-> Or were both of them copies of something else? The Germans' Sturmgewehr seems to be by all acounts the 1st assault rifle... But what was the 1st SMG?

...Or Machine pistol, while we're here... there was a burst fire version of the Mauser pistol I think; any others?

LLL, as I understand it, the Thompson was first; however, concurrent development is certainly possible. The Suomi is a fine weapon in itself and it loses nothing by the Thompson's earlier appearance.

I believe the first SMG was the German MP-18. I believe the first "assault rifle" was the Russian Fed that came out in 1916, however it fired the full sized 7.62 x 54R. I believe the German MP43/44/StG45 was the first true "assault rifle"--a fully automatic select-fire weapon which fired an intermediate sized cartridge.

They were many fully automatic pistols before the development of submachine guns, including the Mauser, a full auto Luger and full auto revolvers (yes, fully automatic revolvers).