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Phrost
5/27/2005 10:35am,
God save the queen...

...from kitchenware. On this side of the pond, someone from that Brady Campaign is quoted as saying "can sharp stick control be far behind?"

And it wasn't in jest, either.

No, not kidding.

Doctors: Ban dagger-type kitchen knives

Sarah Left and agencies
Friday May 27, 2005

A group of doctors today called on the government to ban long pointed kitchen knives in an effort to reduce the number and severity of stabbings.

Knives are the most common murder weapon in Britain, and three doctors from West Middlesex University hospital in London said their experience indicated that at least half of stabbing cases involved a kitchen knife.

Writing in the British Medical Journal, Emma Hern, Will Glazebrook and Mike Beckett said the use of dagger-type kitchen knives owed more to tradition than culinary necessity. The knives, they argued, could be banned without unduly inconveniencing cooks.

A Home Office spokeswoman refused to say whether or not the government would consider such a ban.

The doctors quoted findings that 24% of 16-year-old boys reported carrying knives or other weapons, with 19% admitting they had attacked someone. In the first two weeks of 2005 alone, 15 murders in the UK were linked to stabbings as well as 16 other non-fatal attacks.

The doctors said many assaults were impulsive, often triggered by alcohol or other drugs, and the long pointed kitchen knife was an easily available lethal weapon, especially in the home.

"Government action to ban the sale of such knives would drastically reduce their availability over the course of a few years. In addition, such legislation would make it harder to justify carrying such knives and prosecution easier," they said. "The Home Office is looking for ways to reduce knife crime. We suggest that banning the sale of long pointed knives is a sensible and practical measure that would have this effect."

Most kitchen knives are based on two designs: the dagger variety with a pointed tip, such as a carving knife, and the blunt round nose variety, such as a bread knife.

"When using a knife to harm, a blunt nosed knife is unlikely to cause serious injury, as penetrating clothing and skin is difficult with it. Similarly an assault with a knife with a short blade such as a craft knife may cause a dramatic superficial wound but is unlikely to reach deep structures and cause death. A dagger type knife, however, can penetrate deeply," the doctors wrote.

With a long, pointed knife, cutting into vital organs was no more difficult than cutting into a ripe melon, the doctors wrote. They argued that continued use of the dagger design may just be a tradition stretching back to between 3000 and 700 BC. The doctors asked 10 well-known chefs about whether large pointed kitchen knives had a culinary purpose.

"Some commented that a point is useful in the fine preparation of some meat and vegetables, but that this could be done with a short pointed knife (less than 5cm in length). None gave a reason why the long pointed knife was essential," they wrote. The Home Office said the law already prohibited the possession of knives in a public place without good reason, with the exception of a folding pocket knife with a blade not exceeding 8cm (3in). The government has also announced plans to make knives harder to buy and to raise the minimum age for ownership from 16 to 18.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1493851,00.html?gusrc=rss

Ronin
5/27/2005 10:40am,
As long as the don't ban chairs, my chair-fu is still safe !

Camus
5/27/2005 10:50am,
From a more personal standpoint: bros don't carry kitchen knives, but usually spyderco or some other 'badass' tailored folder. This bothers me more than Brits doing the same with a culinary instrument. I hear they are good people, but I hate bros.

Matsufubu
5/27/2005 11:03am,
Uh-oh.

I don't see the need for shoelaces either. I mean, wearing velcro shoes wouldn't inconvenience shoe-wearers too much, and then we would be free from injuries sustained by tripping over our shoelaces.

No way is this knife **** going to happen. Of all the ways youngsters kill each other, kitchen knives are not the 'in' thing. Military-style knives are. I'd like to see chefs carve a roast chicken with a potato peeler.

Moleculo
5/27/2005 11:35am,
I'm sorry but that is about the most ridiculous and futile attempt at safety.

If it isn't kitchen knives it will be kitchen forks or icepicks or a shiv made from wood or some other type of improvised weapon.

Me, myself, I like to do the stabitty stab with sharpened bamboo or sharpened onyx spike dipped in deadly poison.

Legislate that.

Thorfinn
5/27/2005 1:16pm,
I used to be sort of on the fence on the issue of any kind of weapons control, until someone said to me, "Anything is a weapon if you swing it right."

If bans went into effect down the ladder of weapons, if people weren't killing each other with guns, they'd kill each other with swords, if not swords then knives and it would just continue on down the line until you start seeing news stories and books about toaster violence...

DubhGhaill
5/27/2005 3:28pm,
This is really, really disturbing.

Apostol
5/27/2005 4:09pm,
This is a silly idea, even if they were banned everyone would still have the old knives in their home. I think my family has been using the same knives for like, 10 years.

Skummer
5/27/2005 4:29pm,
Banning tools sometimes used for killing is hardly an adequate solution. The problem is not with the tool, but with the fact that people want to kill.

Sometimes I think these weapon control people would have the whole world padded and blunted so we don't hurt ourselves. It's high time this "friendly fascism" crap is brought to an end.

Camus
5/27/2005 4:35pm,
http://www.bertbullough.com/albums/album03/Guns_don_t_kill_people.jpg

Dochter
5/27/2005 5:08pm,
Personally, I find melon ballers to be far more insidious.

Wounded Ronin
5/27/2005 9:21pm,
Which, incidentally, brings up how the US switchblade ban is equally stupid.

Phrost
5/27/2005 9:28pm,
Well, being a Republi-Libertarian (and knowing how much that tends to irk our liberal members when I bring it up), my view is that it's much better to punish people who attack others (with knives, spoons, or pointy sticks) harsly than to restrict the freedoms of those who obey the laws.

But that's just me.

PizDoff
5/27/2005 9:32pm,
Countless Britons have been saved from tea time.

NoMan
5/27/2005 9:53pm,
Well, being a Republi-Libertarian (and knowing how much that tends to irk our liberal members when I bring it up), my view is that it's much better to punish people who attack others (with knives, spoons, or pointy sticks) harsly than to restrict the freedoms of those who obey the laws.

But that's just me.

This just brings up the point of the old debate. The 1700s in England had three times the rate of homicide than modern America, and the people used knives. The ethnic violence in Rwanda killed millions, but they rarely used guns, they used sticks, rocks, shovels, etc. If you bring up legislation to ban one weapon, people resort to another, and it's an infinite regress. Everything has to get banned. There was a great book written by Myer, (I think that's his name), about gun control and weapon control issues he called the "band-aid" approach, using a quick solution without ever addressing real violence problems.

Wounded Ronin
5/28/2005 12:12am,
This just brings up the point of the old debate. The 1700s in England had three times the rate of homicide than modern America, and the people used knives. The ethnic violence in Rwanda killed millions, but they rarely used guns, they used sticks, rocks, shovels, etc. If you bring up legislation to ban one weapon, people resort to another, and it's an infinite regress. Everything has to get banned. There was a great book written by Myer, (I think that's his name), about gun control and weapon control issues he called the "band-aid" approach, using a quick solution without ever addressing real violence problems.


Machetes imported from China, dude. That's what was used in Rwanda. One for every third male member of the population in Rwanda.