thanks. i think i will try my luck over there.

"The was BrotherD explains it, it's not so much a matter of parole violation as of middle-aged ex-gangsters and ex-cons not being interested in going the seminar/DVD route. Honestly, from everything he's said it's a cultural thing."

They don't have to produce a seminar or DVD, all they have to do, is have a friend film them on video for a couple of minutes, and then if they need some help we'll tell them how to load it onto You-tube. I only hear excuses for why this can't be done, when this is remarkably easy to accomplish.

As I've already said several times, the video already exists, so that isn't the issue. Yes, the upload to YouTube would be easy - that isn't the issue either.

The issue in this case is that I specifically asked the man who sent me the video footage whether I could make it public, and he said no because he felt that the 52s had already been ripped off by TRS and he didn't want to contribute to another ripoff. For the same reason, I don't think it's likely that he'll be making any other footage public, unless he has a change of heart. He takes what he does very seriously and has already been burned once. Hell, I only received the video after being vouched for by two mutual acquaintances and after demonstrating that I respected the culture behind the 52 Blocks.

Personally, I'm of the "information wants to be free" school of thought. I agree, the 52s have been a martial arts UFO for a long time now and that's frustrating. I hope that it will eventually be made public, for the sake of posterity and academic interest if nothing else, but I can't force that process. I do suggest that if a representative of the 52s shows up here again, then a simple demonstration of respectful interest will be much more likely to yield progress than will a Bullshido feeding frenzy.

This isn't a frenzy, its a simple issue, people say it exists, and they can't offer anything to substantiate its existence.

I'm not suggesting that this exchange is a frenzy - to see the sharks in action, look back further into this thread.

I've seen proof in the form of video footage that is congruent with what I've read and been told about the 52 Blocks, from a source that I consider to be the real deal, on the basis of long research and the testimony of people I know to be solid. That makes one of us, I know. Perhaps, and I hope that, more proof will enter the public domain at some stage. If we're lucky this will include Tom Green's dissertation, the upcoming report from a certain D.A. and maybe some video.

Beyond that, if Golgo13 takes his interest to the MMA.tv forums and unless brotherD decides to put in an appearance here, we can probably let this die. If you want to keep discussing the 52s at the academic level, I'm happy to keep it going for a while.

How about a private showing of the video to a select few trusted members here, so they can verify to the rest of us that this stuff even exists?

Edit: Duuurr.

I'd nominate, Asia, Omega, and Scrapper.

you know the problem with posting video?.... (and i could be wrong, but i'm judging from my few days of experience on this board)

the problem with posting video is that unless you see a guy doing something AMAZING that they've never seen before, then it will become an issue of people saying. "Oh that's nothing new, that's just crap boxing" (scroll up, that's already been said in this thread) or they'll see the video and say "that's just wing chun" or "that's not a martial art, that's just street fighting"

it's like the majority of people on this board are so convinced it's bull that when you TRY to show them something that MAY POSSIBLY give them some insight, they blow it off instantly.

like i said, i'm nowhere near an expert, but i have put forth some effort and i've talked to a few people who I BELIEVE to be knowledgeable of the subject. while i can't produce the much requested video, i have tried to name some ELEMENTS of jailhouse/52 that are already available elsewhere. and of course when i did this, i was promptly flamed. so what's the point?

for any OPEN-MINDED party who's interested, i said earlier that if you want to get an IDEA OF SOME OF THE DEFENSIVE MOVEMENTS OF JAILHOUSE/52 watch earlier fights of James "Lights Out" Toney. a source that i trust told me that his DEFENSE is really reminiscent of the style..... if you watch enough of his fights the commentators always mention how good his defense is. (he's considered one of the best modern defensive fighters according to the commentators. if you don't believe that don't flame me. flame Larry Merchant.) anyway, inspite of his somewhat sloppy build and sloth like appearance, he rarely got hit. he could plant his feet and with slight head movement and forearm blocks could stop most punches coming at him.... THIS WAS THE ELEMENT OF 52 I WAS TRYING TO ILLUSTRATE. i never said that JAMES TONEY KNOWS JAILHOUSE ROCK.

... but of course people decided to make that the point and ran with it.
i get brilliant responses like "That isn't 52, that's BOXING"... like i'm some type of moron.

so whatever, all i can do is share what little knowledge i have. if it's wrong, i apologize.

DDlr... believe it or not, i think i've seen the two video clips you're referring to... a friend of a friend kind of situation. he let me watch them. but gave me the same top secret kind of vibe. the guy he got them from made him PROMISE not to post them. to all others reading this i know this sounds like b.s. as i'm typing, i realize that. but i'm telling the truth. trust me when i tell you, that i'm as frustrated as you. i wish somebody would just post them and be done with it. but on the same token, when somebody trusts you with something they believe valuable, it's hard to betray their trust.

i'm curious as to whether or not we're talking about the same footage, DDlr.

As for people looking at the tape and saying "that looks like boxing" yes it could happen. After all you yourself point out that some of the moves resemble those a particular boxer used.

Im curious if there is anything visible that shows that it is distinct from any other martial art. But if people don't want to provide tape, then 52's existance cannot be established separate then say someone's interpretation of boxing.

that's my point. if you already have your mind made up, do you really think a 2 min clip is going to change your mind? people will see it. cry 'dirty boxing' and continue saying it's b.s.

How about a private showing of the video to a select few trusted members here, so they can verify to the rest of us that this stuff even exists?

Edit: Duuurr.

I'll suggest it, but my contact has no particular reason to trust people here. Really, all that the footage proves is what*something* called 52 Blocks looks like in training; the jury would still be out as to whether it's "the real 52s", etc.

you know the problem with posting video?.... (and i could be wrong, but i'm judging from my few days of experience on this board)

the problem with posting video is that unless you see a guy doing something AMAZING that they've never seen before, then it will become an issue of people saying. "Oh that's nothing new, that's just crap boxing" (scroll up, that's already been said in this thread) or they'll see the video and say "that's just wing chun" or "that's not a martial art, that's just street fighting"

it's like the majority of people on this board are so convinced it's bull that when you TRY to show them something that MAY POSSIBLY give them some insight, they blow it off instantly.


I'm taking that for granted.

His 'mind is made up' by lack of evidence, his only preconceptions are that hearsay by random people on the internet should not be taken seriously. This kind of cynicism is natural in a rational thinking human being, it's called not being a gullable twat.

As I said, if DdlR and his source are not comfortable with releasing the evidence publicly then a trusted third party can be used to verify that 52s is a unique and systematic method of combat.

As for people looking at the tape and saying "that looks like boxing" yes it could happen. After all you yourself point out that some of the moves resemble those a particular boxer used.

Im curious if there is anything visible that shows that it is distinct from any other martial art. But if people don't want to provide tape, then 52's existance cannot be established separate then say someone's interpretation of boxing.

The footage looks exactly like you'd expect it to if you've been tracking the sparse "52 techniques" posts around the Net over the past six years or so. The base is obviously boxing, which has been well-established; beyond that, although I haven't seen any of the "street boxing" material from other sources (Ned Beaumont et al), I'd hazard a guess that it is at least somewhat similar, allowing for individuation, physique, etc. Take boxing as the base, relax the rules and pump iron like a madman - no matter who you are, you're likely to end up with something that looks like this.

DDlr... believe it or not, i think i've seen the two video clips you're referring to... a friend of a friend kind of situation. he let me watch them. but gave me the same top secret kind of vibe. the guy he got them from made him PROMISE not to post them. to all others reading this i know this sounds like b.s. as i'm typing, i realize that. but i'm telling the truth. trust me when i tell you, that i'm as frustrated as you. i wish somebody would just post them and be done with it. but on the same token, when somebody trusts you with something they believe valuable, it's hard to betray their trust.

i'm curious as to whether or not we're talking about the same footage, DDlr.

PM me.