Neildo
9/19/2006 5:14pm,
deleted by original poster. Mods delete plz
View Full Version : jail house rocks aka 52 hand blocks
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meng_mao
9/19/2006 5:26pm,
I had a friend who was doing some research on the 52. He was based in Brooklyn and had some footage of guys doing the 52. Mean ass ****!!!
you better back this claim kid. or you'll get roasted.
you better back this claim kid. or you'll get roasted.
Matt W.
9/19/2006 5:42pm,
DdlR, you sound a bit like those guys on Art Bell who try to have a scientific discussion of the numbers of Bigfoot living in North America.
Show me just one!!!
Show me just one!!!
Neildo
9/19/2006 5:55pm,
Hey, a fellow coast2coast listener! Woot!
you better back this claim kid. or you'll get roasted.
I have a sneaky suspicion we'll never see this guy again.
you better back this claim kid. or you'll get roasted.
I have a sneaky suspicion we'll never see this guy again.
DdlR
9/19/2006 6:10pm,
DdlR, you sound a bit like those guys on Art Bell who try to have a scientific discussion of the numbers of Bigfoot living in North America.
Show me just one!!!
Matt,
I don't know much about Art Bell (or Bigfeet) but RobG works at Rikers Island and he's confirmed that *something* called the 52 Hand Blocks is still practiced there. He doesn't like it, mostly because he sees the mystique of the 52s as being part of the gangsta's paradise mentality; he also confirms that it isn't a codified, formalized system. OTOH I don't know if it ever has been, or even if that has ever been claimed. Like I said before, the old school point of view (see Century's book, etc.) was that the 52 Hand Blocks was not a martial art, just a fighting skill.
The only people I know who could point you towards "the real 52s" would be Doug Century, Tom Green and BrotherD. Doug and BrotherD are in NYC and Tom's in Texas.
Show me just one!!!
Matt,
I don't know much about Art Bell (or Bigfeet) but RobG works at Rikers Island and he's confirmed that *something* called the 52 Hand Blocks is still practiced there. He doesn't like it, mostly because he sees the mystique of the 52s as being part of the gangsta's paradise mentality; he also confirms that it isn't a codified, formalized system. OTOH I don't know if it ever has been, or even if that has ever been claimed. Like I said before, the old school point of view (see Century's book, etc.) was that the 52 Hand Blocks was not a martial art, just a fighting skill.
The only people I know who could point you towards "the real 52s" would be Doug Century, Tom Green and BrotherD. Doug and BrotherD are in NYC and Tom's in Texas.
meng_mao
9/19/2006 6:21pm,
I wished BrotherD posted more often. I think his proximity to the art is the best we could get. Or Century, but I dunno where the hell he is. I invited him to this forum at the last email I could find him at.
Matt W.
9/19/2006 6:42pm,
RobG works at Rikers Island and he's confirmed that *something* called the 52 Hand Blocks is still practiced there.
Lay off the crack pipe, dude. RobG repeats over and over how it is nothing more than an urban legend. He "never saw it." He says all he saw was dudes getting into fights after watching kungfu theater. He saw some dirty boxing and fake kungfu and nothing else. His final words on the subject were, there is no 52 to find..and probably never was All he confirmed is that some people claim it. How you can read his post as anything but a firm denial of the "art's" existence is beyond me.
Lay off the crack pipe, dude. RobG repeats over and over how it is nothing more than an urban legend. He "never saw it." He says all he saw was dudes getting into fights after watching kungfu theater. He saw some dirty boxing and fake kungfu and nothing else. His final words on the subject were, there is no 52 to find..and probably never was All he confirmed is that some people claim it. How you can read his post as anything but a firm denial of the "art's" existence is beyond me.
DdlR
9/19/2006 7:07pm,
Matt,
the point is that "dirty boxing and fake kung fu" is exactly what the 52s are supposed to look like. Yes, it's based on boxing; yes, it's also said to incorporate moves copied from kung-fu movies.
Most citations trace the 52 Hand Blocks back to the streets and juvenile facilities of NYC (especially around Brooklyn) in the late '70s. At that time boxing and kung-fu movies would have been just about the only sources available to young men with very little money who wanted to learn how to fight.
If you're assuming that the 52s are supposed to be something else, maybe a "secret prison martial art", then I can understand your skepticism, but I still think it's misplaced. That's the myth of the 52s that Rob is decrying. If you can remove your martial arts glasses for a moment and see the 52 Hand Blocks as a street skill equivalent to break-dancing, without buying in to the mythology, then the whole thing starts to make more sense.
the point is that "dirty boxing and fake kung fu" is exactly what the 52s are supposed to look like. Yes, it's based on boxing; yes, it's also said to incorporate moves copied from kung-fu movies.
Most citations trace the 52 Hand Blocks back to the streets and juvenile facilities of NYC (especially around Brooklyn) in the late '70s. At that time boxing and kung-fu movies would have been just about the only sources available to young men with very little money who wanted to learn how to fight.
If you're assuming that the 52s are supposed to be something else, maybe a "secret prison martial art", then I can understand your skepticism, but I still think it's misplaced. That's the myth of the 52s that Rob is decrying. If you can remove your martial arts glasses for a moment and see the 52 Hand Blocks as a street skill equivalent to break-dancing, without buying in to the mythology, then the whole thing starts to make more sense.
Matt W.
9/19/2006 9:34pm,
DdlR, if we have lowered the definition of Martial Arts to include a "style" that is based on copying moves from movies, then I'm afraid we have reduced the term to meaninglessness. The myth of 52 is that it is a secret prison based martial art. If it is not (and it most definitely is not); if it is nothing more than some people with questionable streetfighting experience copying moves from kungfu movies and calling it a style/name, then it is actually nothing. You might as well try to give some legitimacy to "styles" invented by suburban kids pretending to be ninja. Breakdance comparisons notwithstanding.
meng_mao
9/19/2006 9:49pm,
WTF Meng? That 3 sec imitation wasn't a demo of the art, let alone credible proof of its existence.
No, I'm buying it at this point. There is something[ that happened in the NY prison system, and it looked like that. Maybe it wasn't an effective art. Maybe that guy wasn't good at it. But that's what 52 probably was.
No, I'm buying it at this point. There is something[ that happened in the NY prison system, and it looked like that. Maybe it wasn't an effective art. Maybe that guy wasn't good at it. But that's what 52 probably was.
DdlR
9/19/2006 11:32pm,
DdlR, if we have lowered the definition of Martial Arts to include a "style" that is based on copying moves from movies, then I'm afraid we have reduced the term to meaninglessness. The myth of 52 is that it is a secret prison based martial art. If it is not (and it most definitely is not); if it is nothing more than some people with questionable streetfighting experience copying moves from kungfu movies and calling it a style/name, then it is actually nothing. You might as well try to give some legitimacy to "styles" invented by suburban kids pretending to be ninja. Breakdance comparisons notwithstanding.
Matt,
I am not saying that 52 is a martial art, certainly not by any common definition. For that matter, going by all the research I've done on this subject, very few of those "in the know" even think of it as a martial art. Read Century's book "Street Kingdom", or just do a Google search - the guys who talk about the 52s as if they know what they're saying don't typically call it a martial art. They talk about beatdowns, boxing, street fighting, slap boxing, clowning, "being nice with your hands", etc. See http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69616&goto=nextoldest for some examples, with the usual grain of salt about messages posted to online discussion groups.
IMO, divorced of the mythology, 52 is simply a form of freestyle street fighting based on dirty boxing, with a number of additional "tricks". It has its own flavor but is not a curriculum-based style. Understanding that point is crucial to this discussion.
The only matter we actually disagree on is that, to you, this means that 52 "is actually nothing", whereas to me, it means that 52 is a semi-codified fighting style. The main difference between 52 and suburban kiddy-ninjas is that 52 was, by all accounts, developed by people who know a thing or three about real fighting.
Matt,
I am not saying that 52 is a martial art, certainly not by any common definition. For that matter, going by all the research I've done on this subject, very few of those "in the know" even think of it as a martial art. Read Century's book "Street Kingdom", or just do a Google search - the guys who talk about the 52s as if they know what they're saying don't typically call it a martial art. They talk about beatdowns, boxing, street fighting, slap boxing, clowning, "being nice with your hands", etc. See http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69616&goto=nextoldest for some examples, with the usual grain of salt about messages posted to online discussion groups.
IMO, divorced of the mythology, 52 is simply a form of freestyle street fighting based on dirty boxing, with a number of additional "tricks". It has its own flavor but is not a curriculum-based style. Understanding that point is crucial to this discussion.
The only matter we actually disagree on is that, to you, this means that 52 "is actually nothing", whereas to me, it means that 52 is a semi-codified fighting style. The main difference between 52 and suburban kiddy-ninjas is that 52 was, by all accounts, developed by people who know a thing or three about real fighting.
Sam Browning
9/20/2006 12:36am,
If it exists it shouldn't be impossible to find a credible practicioner. Why doesn't someone who believes in 52's existance get 10-15 minutes on tape, until that happens its an urban myth.
meng_mao
9/20/2006 1:25am,
If it exists it shouldn't be impossible to find a credible practicioner. Why doesn't someone who believes in 52's existance get 10-15 minutes on tape, until that happens its an urban myth.
I dunno if the argument that I'm about to give is valid, so correct me if there's flaws:
the intersection of people who want to know if 52 is real and the people who practice it may be too small, because we're all huge intellectual MA dorks, and the practictioners are isolated from us by lifestyle, prison, socioeconomics, xenophobia, etc.
I dunno if the argument that I'm about to give is valid, so correct me if there's flaws:
the intersection of people who want to know if 52 is real and the people who practice it may be too small, because we're all huge intellectual MA dorks, and the practictioners are isolated from us by lifestyle, prison, socioeconomics, xenophobia, etc.
meng_mao
9/20/2006 1:27am,
What makes you think that? We have the wu tang, a few online discussions and one 3 second clip of someone imitating it. Ok...
At the very very least, a professor of anthropology has acknowledged this nebulous thing's existence. If you can't take his word/opinion for it, then you can't. But I'm willing to take that bet.
At the very very least, a professor of anthropology has acknowledged this nebulous thing's existence. If you can't take his word/opinion for it, then you can't. But I'm willing to take that bet.
RobG
9/20/2006 7:29am,
The 52 has no more substance than the urban legend of Superfly. Or the pimp with a heart of gold.
Slapboxing and hippitty hoppity, mixed in with Sat. morning kung fu theater on NYC's channel 5 - back in the days.....does not create anything substantial, The Wu Tang sang a story....and its only one form of urban legend in the inner city.
My ex-wife was african american - and from Bed Sty (Bed Sty - do or die). I was from Flatbush...and we are both over 20 years in NYC Corrections...and over 40 in m.a. study.
The 52 was/is and always will be..an urban legend, based in the african american community. Sorta like those 2 guys from about 15 years ago, claiming to teach ancient African m.a. -- or Ron Duncans 'Koga Ryu Ninjitsu'.....and me and my ex BOTH knew Ronny D. for the fake he was/is and always will be.
And we can discuss this until Bullshiod burns out...but there is simply no more actual proof that the 'real 52' ever existed....than there is real proof that a burning bush ever spoke, or one walked on water or Tesla created a death beam.
Belief and second hand testimony does not add up to anything with substance, in these cases. No matter how many straws the theory grasps at. And even as intensly as some mentioned 'believe' it....no matter how convinced that they saw that U.F.O. (unidentified fighting object) - does not make it true.
Jailhouse bullshit + urban myth + repetition/time X 1 Rap Song = The 52 blocks aka Jailhouse rock(s).
And until one presents more than a few moments of crappy bigfoot footage.....AFAIC, this subject is as useful as a yeti scalp.
Slapboxing and hippitty hoppity, mixed in with Sat. morning kung fu theater on NYC's channel 5 - back in the days.....does not create anything substantial, The Wu Tang sang a story....and its only one form of urban legend in the inner city.
My ex-wife was african american - and from Bed Sty (Bed Sty - do or die). I was from Flatbush...and we are both over 20 years in NYC Corrections...and over 40 in m.a. study.
The 52 was/is and always will be..an urban legend, based in the african american community. Sorta like those 2 guys from about 15 years ago, claiming to teach ancient African m.a. -- or Ron Duncans 'Koga Ryu Ninjitsu'.....and me and my ex BOTH knew Ronny D. for the fake he was/is and always will be.
And we can discuss this until Bullshiod burns out...but there is simply no more actual proof that the 'real 52' ever existed....than there is real proof that a burning bush ever spoke, or one walked on water or Tesla created a death beam.
Belief and second hand testimony does not add up to anything with substance, in these cases. No matter how many straws the theory grasps at. And even as intensly as some mentioned 'believe' it....no matter how convinced that they saw that U.F.O. (unidentified fighting object) - does not make it true.
Jailhouse bullshit + urban myth + repetition/time X 1 Rap Song = The 52 blocks aka Jailhouse rock(s).
And until one presents more than a few moments of crappy bigfoot footage.....AFAIC, this subject is as useful as a yeti scalp.
baqi9
9/20/2006 8:39am,
So exactly are these things these "thugs" in the prison system using. Lots of elbows, knees and blocks. What do they call it, and what do you call it. Also is it useful as a fighting style, or can anybody with a years training in any "accepted" style of ma woop these jokers? Just curious to know your take since you were in the correctional system for so long.
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