Today, while I was searching for counterpoints on the repercusions of the Qu´ran desecration story, I came across this:
Rumsfeld closes 33 military bases (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/16/base.closings.ap/index.html)

Wasn´t Bush elected by a great majority of military support?
Isn´t this like "thanks for your vote, boys, but go home"?

Not really. While there is a net loss of positions, there's an acknowledged need for reorging the military to better reflect contemporary needs. No different than a corporation laying off workers in one area and hiring others in another to be a better institution.

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As for the Quran thing, Newsweek recanted their story, saying it was wrong.

Too late, Newsweek. There's already people dead because of an unsubstantiated story from an anonymous source.

Yes, the Newsweek story was...controversial. One does wonder how the choice to print that spurious story came about. I mean, even if it was true, it would create inmediate repercussions.
But what I meant is, since the public perception (at least, what I read from down here) was that Bush was a more militaristic minded candidate that Kerry, and that he´ll make a better "defender" (even if no one was attacking America), wouldn´t this run contrary to the plataform which Busch & Co. used to win the election?

Speaking as a veteran...

Yeah, most of us were in favor of him the first time around. Almost the same the second time around. I'll admit that I was swept up in the same *misguided* patriotic fervor as just about everyone else when we started in on Iraq. Prior to our landing, GSGT said, "Well, if you ever wanted to see what Baghdad looks like...too late!" That got cheers. My feelings are ever-so-slightly mixed these days. Rant about personal experience with Iraq done.

Yeah, it's a big "**** you!" to the military folks. Much more so for the surrounding towns. The only good news is that Republicans in states with base closure will fight like a pack of weasels to keep it from happening. Nothing breaks up a party like threatening representatives' political futures. I'd just LOVE to see all of them rolling around in a politcal ****-throwing contest; beats the alternative.

For more "**** you!" gestures towards the military, research cuts in veteran's benefits. Medical care? Yeah. Right. G.I. Bill? BARELY covers community college costs, and just go to hell if you want a respectable four-year. The home loans actually aren't bad at the time being.

Todays fun statistic (from V.A.): Less than 30% of veterans will use the G.I. bill. Of those, less than 20% will obtain a four-year degree. Grand total: 6%.

Rumsfeld's reogranizing the Army into more of a Quick Reaction-type force to adapt to the new state of affairs in the world and to get away from the Cold War model.

None of the bases on the list were really important.

Rumsfeld's reogranizing the Army into more of a Quick Reaction-type force to adapt to the new state of affairs in the world and to get away from the Cold War model.

None of the bases on the list were really important.


You mean like antiterroist units?
What will happen to all the noncombatant personel who work there?

For more "**** you!" gestures towards the military, research cuts in veteran's benefits. Medical care? Yeah. Right. G.I. Bill? BARELY covers community college costs, and just go to hell if you want a respectable four-year. The home loans actually aren't bad at the time being.

Todays fun statistic (from V.A.): Less than 30% of veterans will use the G.I. bill. Of those, less than 20% will obtain a four-year degree. Grand total: 6%.

I was in when they instituted Tricare. It sucks greatly to join the Army under the impression that if you start a family their health care will be covered, only to have them turn around and change their mind on that. They not only fucked active duty people, but retirees who had been guaranteed health care for life for their service.

As far as college goes, I'm currently enrolled using BOTH the G.I. Bill, and Army College Fund. However, most of my tuition is covered by a Stafford loan. Don't forget though, these changes went in under Clinton (though with a Republican congress).

It's one of the reasons why I got out. The Tricare crap happened just as I was considering either joining up with the SOAR battalion or a MI unit were I became the BN Signal NCOIC. I chose that path in no small part due to the dwindling benefits. Why do 20 years as a balls-to-the-wall HOOAH soldier when all you'll have to show for it is fucked up knees, experimental anthrax vaccine in your blood, and a $1500 monthly paycheck (if you reach E-8 or E-9)?

Sorry, am I understanding this right?
After 20 years you get paid only US$ 1.500?

You mean like antiterroist units?
What will happen to all the noncombatant personel who work there?

I think his proposed doctrine is to be able to move a Brigade sized element anywhere in the world within 72-96 hours. (Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong).

It's mainly in response to the fact that it's highly unlikely we'll fight a conventional war anytime soon. Nobody wants to take us on directly, and of the few that actually could threaten us, through Capitalism and the opening of international markets, there's really no reason to do so.

Consequently, states with which we do have conflicts, will be more and more likely to engage in asymetrical warfare such as terrorism. Do you really think the people of Iraq are leading this insurgency? There'd be no insurgency if it wasn't for support from Syria, Iran, and others.

So Rumsfeld's doing the right thing in streamlining the force and using our strengths; technology, superior firepower, superior training, superior mobility.

As far as civilian support, any large organization (especially government ones) are prone to bloat and waste. You can't keep paying people to do things that don't need to be done, and succeed as a nation. The good of the many outweighs the needs of the individual. This is what the Socialists don't get... yeah, you can take from the wealthy to pay for the inept, poor, and downtrodden, but you get a negligeable return on investment while driving those wealthy, talented, and productive members of society to other countries where there is greater reward for their abilities.

Sorry, am I understanding this right?
After 20 years you get paid only US$ 1.500?

If you retire after 20 years of the military (at least in the Army) you get 50% of what your base pay was when you retired. If your base pay was $3000, you get $1500. However, you have to achieve the rank of E-7 to make that much. (Though usually if you don't make E-7 by 20 years, they get rid of you anyway). If you manage to be a SGM, you'll make a little more. I also believe you get a larger percentage the longer you stay in after 20 years.

But with benefit cuts like these, you can't even count on that anymore.

Hell, I've known ACTIVE DUTY soldiers who had to get financial assistance (food stamps) because they couldn't afford groceries on their salaries. Looking at the pay scale now though, things seem a lot better.

Consequently, states with which we do have conflicts, will be more and more likely to engage in asymetrical warfare such as terrorism. Do you really think the people of Iraq are leading this insurgency? There'd be no insurgency if it wasn't for support from Syria, Iran, and others.




Sorry to disagree, Phrost, but there wouldn´t be insurgences against the U.S. in Iraq if the U.S. wouldn´t have troops in the country.
But I agree with you that the U.S. doesn´t have a serious rival militaristically speaking. Still, my point is, what will happen to the core people who voted bush into office, and will be made unemployed? Isn´t this a way to alienate the republican support that he needs?

I was in when they instituted Tricare. It sucks greatly to join the Army under the impression that if you start a family their health care will be covered, only to have them turn around and change their mind on that. They not only fucked active duty people, but retirees who had been guaranteed health care for life for their service.)

OUCH. I feel for you on that. I at least knew I would be pretty screwed when I signed up.


As far as college goes, I'm currently enrolled using BOTH the G.I. Bill, and Army College Fund. However, most of my tuition is covered by a Stafford loan. Don't forget though, these changes went in under Clinton (though with a Republican congress).

I'm under the same thing, though mine's the $40K Navy version (volunteering to go play with the Recon guys helped there). On the one hand, I do live in California with the associated costs of living. On the other, you can't beat $26 per credit hour, not by a long damned shot. Unfortunately my war haul (tax free, combat pay, haz duty pay, etc.) is on my current tax return. That REALLY screwed me. Next time I hire a dishonest person to prepare my returns.

I'll readily concede that a lot of the changes did happen under Clinton. My major beef is that benefits have been reduced under Bush, who claimed to be a friend 'o this man's military. Nothing in the works to correct any of that; the general trend is more cuts.


It's one of the reasons why I got out. The Tricare crap happened just as I was considering either joining up with the SOAR battalion or a MI unit were I became the BN Signal NCOIC. I chose that path in no small part due to the dwindling benefits. Why do 20 years as a balls-to-the-wall HOOAH soldier when all you'll have to show for it is fucked up knees, experimental anthrax vaccine in your blood, and a $1500 monthly paycheck (if you reach E-8 or E-9)?

Your reasons for getting out are very similar to my own. I had the option of going to a comissioning program when I left; they had me slotted to be a Ground Intel officer after graduating either the Academy of Texas A&M. (That's a pipeline into Force Recon, for the fanboys out there.) I'm well aware that a degree from the academy virtually assures that you will never be out of work. My personal experience with Humvees exploding around me dictated that I wasn't all that interested. And the dead friends. Never again, not for this administration, not for this war. And may their souls have mercy on me and understand when I pass.

I'm a mere 25 years old, and I already have fucked-up knees and ankles from rucking all over the place and pitching myself out of perfectly good airplanes. My x-rays and MRI's look more like the joints of a guy in his 50's. There's a point when you just can't do it any more, and I preferred to walk out rather than have someone carry me out. IMHO, it's also no life for a man who wants a family.


Rumsfeld's reogranizing the Army into more of a Quick Reaction-type force to adapt to the new state of affairs in the world and to get away from the Cold War model.)

I'll believe it when I see it. Hackworth was raising hell about that in the early sixties, and did so for the next forty years of his life. He was ignored...and this is one of the most decorated men in the history of the country. I don't honestly think that any of the services have the nuts (or the combat leaders in major command positions) to pull this off. The military is a massive institution with a lot of inertia. It was the same before us, and probably will be the same after we're gone. Exception: the Marine Corps. As a branch (sub-branch, if I'm feeling all Navy), they saw the writing on the wall. Ditto with spec-ops. I think the idea went over the heads of everyone else.

But with benefit cuts like these, you can't even count on that anymore.

Hell, I've known ACTIVE DUTY soldiers who had to get financial assistance (food stamps) because they couldn't afford groceries on their salaries. Looking at the pay scale now though, things seem a lot better.

I´m sorry to hear that. Even here, with our crappy economy, most soldiers do at least okay.
I really don´t get the mindset which uses the military arm of the government so often, and yet doesn´t care for its own.

But I agree with you that the U.S. doesn´t have a serious rival militaristically speaking. Still, my point is, what will happen to the core people who voted bush into office, and will be made unemployed? Isn´t this a way to alienate the republican support that he needs?

I can only hope so. It seems like he's pissing off his base in every direction these days, fundamentalists and military members alike. Hopefully he'll keep that going long enough that it'll matter during the upcoming elections. Maybe even the next presidential race. Still, never discount the stupidity of his support structure. If he said the sky was purple, there's a good portion of the country that would smile and nod.

I'm a mere 25 years old, and I already have fucked-up knees and ankles from rucking all over the place and pitching myself out of perfectly good airplanes. My x-rays and MRI's look more like the joints of a guy in his 50's. There's a point when you just can't do it any more, and I preferred to walk out rather than have someone carry me out. IMHO, it's also no life for a man who wants a family.


Dude, I´m sorry for you. That´s fucked up.

Dude, I´m sorry for you. That´s fucked up.

No, that's okay. I knew it would happen when I enlisted. My family has had people in the military (in one part of the tree or another) since the Revolutionary War. Most of them have been infantry, medics, or special operations (since Vietnam). I knew what I was doing, and I knew what it would cost me from a physical perspective. I'm just hosed because I expected more support when I got out. THAT is what should be concentrated on.

I really don't feel sorry for myself, never. I DO feel sorry for the men and women who come home missing limbs, or otherwise disabled; I treated some of them. I feel sorry for the ones who came home in a box (some of whom I tried to help), and I feel sorry for their families. The rest of us got dealt a shitty hand in terms of cuts. We shouldn't be feeling sorry, we should be REALLY PISSED OFF AND FUCKING LOUD ABOUT IT. Which I am.