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Patrick Baas
11/09/2009 5:07am,
Yes indeed, but this information wasn't new to me. Anyway, when Lee Nam Suk (Song Do Kan Kong Soo Do = Shotokan Karate) en Byung In Yoong (Kwon Bup = Kempo) decided to coorporate, Byung In Yoong dissapeared in World War II. In fact we can say that combining Kempo and Karate we can speak in terms of 'Kempo Karate' wich is very often used. After Byung In Yoong became a MIA, Lee Nam Suk changed it in Chang Moo Kwan, wich later indeed changed by the gouvernement into Taekwondo. To bad...! I still prefer to use the name Kempo Karate or 'Kwon Bup' Kong Soo Do because the original concept was all about true selfdefence, moral values and honor. Modern sports did not have (just my opinion) a good effect on this. Plastic trofees, showballet, buying high degrees and ego seemed to became of more importance to many. It's a pitty.

X_plosion
11/10/2009 11:52am,
Yes indeed, but this information wasn't new to me. Anyway, when Lee Nam Suk (Song Do Kan Kong Soo Do = Shotokan Karate) en Byung In Yoong (Kwon Bup = Kempo) decided to coorporate, Byung In Yoong dissapeared in World War II. In fact we can say that combining Kempo and Karate we can speak in terms of 'Kempo Karate' wich is very often used. After Byung In Yoong became a MIA, Lee Nam Suk changed it in Chang Moo Kwan, wich later indeed changed by the gouvernement into Taekwondo. To bad...! I still prefer to use the name Kempo Karate or 'Kwon Bup' Kong Soo Do because the original concept was all about true selfdefence, moral values and honor. Modern sports did not have (just my opinion) a good effect on this. Plastic trofees, showballet, buying high degrees and ego seemed to became of more importance to many. It's a pitty.

Right you are.

Just a small point of clarification, Yun Byung In went missing during the Korean War. It became recently known in South Korea and the West that Yun was in North Korea when the Korean Civil War broke out, and he was never able to return to the south.

The Tae Kwon Do teacher Kim Soo has the story on his site.

Anyway, glad to know you are at work preserving the Gong Soo Do teaching methods as passed down to your lineage. Best wishes.

Dan Anderson
11/10/2009 12:53pm,
Good historical points being made here. The Kongsu I was affilitated with was with the Yan Mu Kwan. A medical student, Moon Yo Woo, began a branch of it in about 1958 in Portland, Oregon. he left portland after he graduated and Bruce Terrill was the head of the group until he changed the style (he'd had some training with Taky Kimura in the middle 1960's which really turned him around).

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Dan Anderson
12/10/2009 6:32pm,
Just put up a video of me doing some forms I learned ~40 years ago. These are from Kongsu, a pre-taekwondo style taught in Korea prior to unification of the kwans. Not so bad for an old buzzard...except for Sipsu (my worst kata). Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA1Lrk--IN4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA1Lrk--IN4)

Yours,
Dan Anderson

rmclain
12/23/2009 2:00pm,
Grandmaster Kim Soo is not really a Taekwondo teacher, he was one of the people that held out from changing to the KTA/WTF sport movement. He did adopt the TKD forms Palgue 1-8, Koryo, Taebaek, and Jee Tae into his existing curriculum. But, these are the only TKD forms in his curriculum out of 48 required for 5th Dan (Master in his Chayon-Ryu system). 11/48. The other forms are from karate and chuan-fa. There are 8 more forms required for 5th Dan and above, all from karate and chuan-fa.

R. McLain





Right you are.

Just a small point of clarification, Yun Byung In went missing during the Korean War. It became recently known in South Korea and the West that Yun was in North Korea when the Korean Civil War broke out, and he was never able to return to the south.

The Tae Kwon Do teacher Kim Soo has the story on his site.

Anyway, glad to know you are at work preserving the Gong Soo Do teaching methods as passed down to your lineage. Best wishes.

Ace87
1/08/2010 10:16pm,
Well I'm attending taekwondo right now in Queens, NY and I don't really like the sport aspect of it. I prefer more a practical one so I debating shotokan Karate or ITF taekwondo but since you guys mentioned Kong soo do, I'm wondering are there any dojangs out there in NYC? Or anything relate to Kong soo do? I don't know if Tang soo do,chung do kwan or Shotokan counts but those dojangs are hard to find also.

GongSooDo
3/19/2010 9:54am,
I've been practicing GongSooDo for over 10 years (in Minnesota, USA). Before that I practiced Goju Ryu karate. The way I've been taught, GongSooDo is traditional Korean karate/taekwondo with little to no sport aspect to it. We are taught traditional forms (Pyung Ahn intermediate forms), contact sparring, one-steps, and self-defense (basic to intermediate Hapkido techniques). Basically GongSooDo is TangSooDo in terms of style, philosophy, etc. - but not all TangSooDo schools are the same. It depends some on which organization they are associated with. Ours is not associated with any TangSooDo organizations, so we are free from changes that have occurred within the TangSooDo community (at least within the last 40 years or more).

In terms of advanced forms, the GongSooDo versions of the forms that I've learned can look significantly different from the TangSooDo versions of the form of the same name. We learn both versions of some forms (like Chinto/Jinto) because many practicioners simply can't perform the GongSooDo versions, and as instructors we need to be able to teach the forms to a student of any ability level (and communicate the essence or information contained in the form). In general, the GongSooDo versions are much more difficult, and in my opinion, have a much more Chinese influence to them. Perhaps they are less "contaminated" by Japanese karate, who knows. But our Chinto contains 4 spinning kicks of 360 degrees, and one spinning kick of 540 degrees - and it's a traditional form, taught that way to my instructor back in the 70s by a Korean, not a modern competition form. You won't see that form anywhere else.

GongSooDo as I've been taught also has two flavors of black belt forms: power forms and speed forms. In TangSooDo forms I've seen, there's not much distinction between the moves in Chulgi/Naihanchi (Iron Horse) forms and, for example, Bassai (the Cobra). But for us, the Iron Horse forms are powerful with extreme tension and heavy breathing, and the Cobra form is fast with emphasis on correct form and technique with speed, generating power from proper technique instead of muscle tension. You might ask about this difference at potential GongSooDo schools to see if it's universally true. I like our style because the forms actually resemble the animals they are meant to. Wait until you get to crane, heron, or sparrow forms.

If you're looking for a martial art that has style and character, I recommend checking out GongSooDo. You're not going to become an Ultimate Fighter, but you will learn useful techniques in a traditional setting, and not get caught up in sport TKD, and probably won't be in a school loaded with kids. An instructor may not be cooperative, but you can ask him/her to perform an advanced form for you, so you can get an idea of the style. Some instructors are better than others, but we all love martial arts and would usually love to perform something for an appreciative audience. I perform an advanced form (such as Kong Sang Koon, the Eagle) at white belt testings.

Respectfully, C. Hagness

Rock Ape
3/19/2010 2:13pm,
Moved from .org forum.

battlefields
3/19/2010 9:00pm,
Is it just me or does this thread read like an advertisement?