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ojgsxr6
4/11/2005 10:51pm,
Because I'm never content to suck at one thing, and strive to be horrible at as many things as possible, I decided to try an Enshin class. If you don't know, Enshin is the bastard mullado child of Ashihara Karate and Judo apparently. Ashihara being an offshoot of Kyokushin.

The sensei's name is Sensei Falcon. If that's not badass, I don't know what is. There's a brief bio on him on www.enshinnewyork.com. Yes the website sucks, I'd turn down the volume before you click on the link.

Now onto the class, for some reason it seems that people who teach Kyokushin offshoots don't like to teach basics. They start yelling in japanese and you do your best to copy what the teacher is doing. I say this because this also seemed to be the case when I tried a Seido class. I don't understand why they just can't slow down and break down the movements. The punches are completely different that what I do in my current karate class. They seem to drill punches how they'd be using them in a real life(competition). Which brings me to my next observation, they seem to do endless sparring drills, ie parries and various counters. Constantly adding on to the end or doing different variations. While in my current Karate class we spar often but do not do many sparring drills.

The round kick is very different from what I had learned previously (more like a TKD round) the sensei says the Enshin way is more powerfu, I personally don't like it because they have you drop you're hand when you kick which seems odd to me. Don't get me wrong I'm more than willing to learn the Enshin kicks and techniques.

The only other thing I can think of is that there might be a language barrier. He's Turkish and sometimes will stop and think about what he has to say, which makes me wonder if he understands everything I say, and makes me self conscious of whether or not I come off sounding like a prick.

I really suck at writing in general, so if you have any questions I'll try to answer them

Ronin
4/12/2005 7:15am,
Enshin is an excellent system, for what I have seen from it.
If there was an ENshin school here, I would be in it.

Sparring drills are essential, the more the better.

The round kick is the typical "kyokushin" round kick, much like the MT kick, rather than a TKD kick.

www.sabaki.enshin.com

There are a few books and videos out there.

Their use of parries and attacking from the blind spot is a carry over from the Ashihara Karate that Ninomya was taught.

They have implemented more grappling as of late.

Gezere
4/12/2005 7:55am,
If you plan on sticking with it I highly suggest....no COMMAND that you get SABAKI METHOD. Its a good book that outlines the basic Enshin Ryu principles. Ninomya was a competent Judo competitor before taking up karate so you will be some grappling along with. Ninomya favors the triangle choke so you may see alot sequences ending with that.

afronaut
4/12/2005 8:28am,
There is an Enshin guy in the city where I work, and I know that he is also part of the Royce Gracie network of schools in the northeast. So by way of association, that's gotta be pretty good.

samadhi_fire
4/12/2005 10:08am,
I mentioned this before in another thread but I can't remember where.

I almost bought a couple of tapes on the Sabaki Challenge (99 and 01) until I tried them out. From what I saw, it was pretty sad. Most of the competitors were focusing on sweeping their opponents because that apparently got them the points. After awhile, it seemed that that was all they cared about. Man, what happened to the hardcore bareknuckle battles of Kyokushin? They would throw a couple of punches and kicks (which all didn't seem very powerful or effective to me) just to close in and trip their opponents.

Seems like it's going the wrong way to me.

Yrkoon9
4/12/2005 10:11am,
Founder of the Enshin system is Joko Ninomiya. He is a legitimate bad ass. Only slightly different than the Ashihara method it is popularized by the Sabaki Challenge in Colorado.

One of my old friends teaches the Enshin system in Texas someplace. He fought in Sabaki and did well. Don't think he won the whole thing, but won some fights and got the spirit award or someshit.

I am not sure it is really blended with Judo, as it just awards for clean sweeps and throws that have continual movement from the strikes. Really they want to see the clean headkick KO.

It's funny. I learned the first 2 Ashihara fighting kata's back in 94ish... And was familiar with Joko then. I look at his book in 2000 and he has added armlocks and **** straight out of BJJ in his book. I was like....awwww c'mon.

patfromlogan
4/12/2005 11:01am,
Deja vu all over again:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=616417&postcount=13

Is Enshin Karate good? I just found one 45 minutes from me.

Search, use search...


Enshin is an offshot of Ashihara Karate, which is an off shot of Kyokushin.
Joko Ninomya was the creator and it is a system that advocates full contact sparring and the use of "tai-sabaki" ( usually just called Sabaki), which means "body movement", in other words they love to go the the oppoents blind spot and beat the **** out of them from there, with low kicks, reverse punches, hooks, spinning hook kicks, etc.
In the Sabaki tournamenst you are allowed to grab, sweep and throw ( no ground work), and you get points even if you doen't follow up with a strike ( as long as the throw/sweep was effective).
It is full contact with no-contact to the face with fists, though in the first ones you could elbow the head/face, I don't know if that has changed.

Enshin also teaches judo throws and ground work in their curriculum.

patfromlogan
4/12/2005 11:06am,
Now onto the class, for some reason it seems that people who teach Kyokushin offshoots don't like to teach basics. They start yelling in japanese and you do your best to copy what the teacher is doing. I say this because this also seemed to be the case when I tried a Seido class. I don't understand why they just can't slow down and break down the movements.


I know nothing of KK offshoots, but in the two KK dojos I worked out in they spent little time explaining basics to n00bs. I think it was a why bother attitude, they're going to quit anyway. You will get it just fine by watching and imitating, and after a while if you stick with it some one will notice you and will get bugged by your mistakes and correct you.

ojgsxr6
4/12/2005 11:11am,
Deja vu all over again
I don't know if that was directed at me but this wasn't a post asking about Enshin, it was more of a review of the class.

patfromlogan
4/12/2005 11:19pm,
I don't know if that was directed at me but this wasn't a post asking about Enshin, it was more of a review of the class.


If you want me to actually read your posts and stop making assumptions, I'll try. But it will help if you buy the expresso.

Gezere
4/13/2005 2:01am,
It's funny. I learned the first 2 Ashihara fighting kata's back in 94ish... And was familiar with Joko then. I look at his book in 2000 and he has added armlocks and **** straight out of BJJ in his book. I was like....awwww c'mon.

Uhm If you were familiar with Joko you know he did Judo before doing karate. SO he didn't get add armlocks and **** straight out of BJJ. Ya fucking dumbass.

JUDO UBER ALLES!!!!

patfromlogan
5/10/2005 9:44am,
http://crane.50megs.com/index6j.htm

Link provided by Shadowdh on another thread. It deals with Tai Chi/Oyama/Ashihara and Enshin

Yrkoon9
5/10/2005 12:21pm,
Uhm If you were familiar with Joko you know he did Judo before doing karate. SO he didn't get add armlocks and **** straight out of BJJ. Ya fucking dumbass.

JUDO UBER ALLES!!!!

And if you were at all familiar with Joko's history, and the evolution of Kyokush to Ahshihara to Enshin and the book I am talking about you would see it was quite obviously in direct response to the BJJ revolution. It was a little tack on to his system that simply doesn't flow. Like throwing a steak into the blender with your fruit smoothy.

Like I said, my friend teaches this system, and has competed in the Sabaki Challenge. So yes, I do know WTF I am talking about. I began watching it in in the early 90's. And through the evolution you can see the gradual acceptance of more sweeps and throws. Referees have now added more time that an opponent can hold another opponent and try a throw.

His style is knockdown Karate. Period. It isn't a blend of Judo and Karate. Sure, they will allow the use of Judo throws but they allow ZERO groundwork in the Sabaki Challenge. Zero.

When you look at his book in the back, in the WAY back you see groundwork self defense. And yes, it is textbook BJJ. As a student of BOTH I can see that the market forced him to include groundwork, and specifically self defense groundwork, and more specifically techniques straight from BJJ 101 in his book. Had that book been published 10 years earlier there would be no grappling at all. None. But the constant bombardment of how effective BJJ is caused him to include some in his book. No, obviously he is not a BJJ student. But there is a huge difference between picking up a Judo book, picking up a BJJ book, and picking up the precursor to the Enshin book - called Ashihara, fighting karate. Look at Joko's book.

In the 90's it was like, knock your opponent down and then stomp kick him in the ribs, turn to face next opponent. Now its like knock your opponent down and then apply an armlock.

There is no denying that BJJ has infiltrated some of the most traditional arts, and it does not suprise me at all that it made its way into one of the more innovative karate methods.

Let me put it another way. If Rorion didn't introduce BJJ to N America there would be no groundwork in that book. None.

Ronin
5/10/2005 12:24pm,
Did you read Joko's other book? the auto-biography?

patfromlogan
5/10/2005 12:32pm,
this is the book?
http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/879/30584879.jpg

Ronin
5/10/2005 12:36pm,
Yes. :fist: