IMNSHO, I believe that the difference between MMA and JKD is that JKD is just MMA with better form and tactics. While Bruce may have emphasized cross-training, he also emphasized Specialization, i.e. not just training "BJJ, with a little boxing and wrestling to round it out".
Don't Get me wrong, I love UFC and Pride and I watch them every chance I can, but i have never seen someone fight power side forward in tha cage, and throw vertical fist leads, nor have I seen ANY MMA fighter line his feet and hands up in the JKD On-Guard.
MMA is designed so you get blood, knockouts, toe-to-toe, grappling, submissions. JKD is designed so you take out an attacker in a matter of seconds. Also, i dont see any bullshido in JKD because GOOD JKD (not the omg BL is G0D ****) is based on simple physics.
Another thing is the _ing _un Foundation of JKD. Thats why you see JKDers doing chi sao and trapping. People on here are always talking about how crappy _ing _un is, and it must be realized that that in its self is EXACTLY why Bruce created JKD. The Chi Sao done in JKD is different than _ing _un Chi Sao and the JKD trapping is designed to work a lot better. Not that _ing _un NEVER works, but it works a good amount less than when it was created 300+ years ago.
Chi Sao is done in JKD to develop trapping sensitivity but thats it. More Emphasis is placed on Sparring and realistic Attack simulation with either Full-Contact armor or headgear.
Also, Anyone who says JKD is a mashed-up bundle of different arts is a little misguided. Though cross-training is encouraged, you cant add BJJ stuff to JKD and call it JKD. (or muay thai or Kali or Silat) BJJ is BJJ, JKD is JKD. BJJ is great for groundfighting and grappling but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD (or Bruce Lee w/e) dont try to mix things with JKD and still call it JKD. If you learn BJJ go ahead and use it but no matter what it is still a different system.

lol @ quick neck snaps and finger snaps.

lollity lollity lollity

at training last nite, a giant swedish guy was grapplin' with me, and he rammed a knee into my nuts "accidently" ... then he passed my super guard and crushed my fingers so they bent back to almost the back of my hand "accidently"

i squealed like a girl and he got off. he pretended to say sorry but i don't think he meant it cos i looked in his eyes and i saw a "thats how us swedish guys do it on the street biatch yah?" so I don't think he had trained MMA or BJJ, i think he had trained JKD.

finito.

:israel7va

Ummmm. Have you bothered to read or speak to anyone who practices JKD? I see it in your style field, but you appear to be absolutely clueless to it's root and mantra. One of the core concepts of JKD is to do whatever it takes to improve your fighting style, regardless of where a technique might have come from. Everything that is useful, in the mind of JKD's creator, is JKD at it's heart.

JKD wasn't traditional nor was it meant to be taught "traditionally", ie. without change. So learning BJJ and incorporating it into the art would have been keeping this spirit alive, so it would be JKD to add BJJ techniques. The only requirement would be that the techniques WORK effectively. Even Lee himself used groundfighting, albeit rudimentary and simplistic grappling that could be countered in this day and age of constant testing of techniques. In an interview with Lee and Bob Wall, it was detailed that Lee fought a "heckler" amongst the extras in "Enter the Dragon", ending the fight with a straight arm lock and repeated punches to the face. The positioning described in the interview is reminiscent of today's "armbar" position, although without the leg over the head to hold the opponent down and keep them from countering by sitting up and bending the arm.

It's this horrific departure from the original mandate of JKD that makes it laughable today. It stopped evolving effectively when the court system was asked to decide who had "ownership" of JKD and, thus, caused a rift between those who were taught and those who wanted monetary gain. Since that time, the same problems that plagued traditional arts (the same TMAs Lee thought had lost their way), has plagued JKD. It's mired in the beliefs that Alex8876 detailed:


Anyone who says JKD is a mashed-up bundle of different arts is a little misguided. Though cross-training is encouraged, you cant add BJJ stuff to JKD and call it JKD. (or muay thai or Kali or Silat)

Take a look at your history and you'll notice that there are already aspects of Kali and Silat in JKD. This makes me think that Alex doesn't have a clue about JKD at all. It's really sad that someone who does not nutride JKD (me) knows more about it than someone who lists that as part of their style.

JKD concepts pisses me off really bad.

Bruce said "I fear not the man who has practiced 1000 kicks, but the man who has praciticed one Kick a thousand times."

So WHYYYYYYYY do concepts teachers teach 200 different Silat moves, 300 different Kali moves, all this different stick and knife stuff, and actually expect you to remember it all in a fight, which probably is gonna last about 5 seconds?

He also said "TMA's teach you to 'do this, then do this, then do that, then do this,' and then you finally finish one move. While you're remembering all the 'and thens' the other guy is gonna kill you."

So WHYYYYYYY do the concepts teachers use this same process? They be all like "if they throw a punch, use a pak sao, and then flow into western boxing and use a cross-hook-cross, and then flow into a lop sao, and then use a silat wrist lock."

All the while all you had to do was Intercept with a side kick to the knee, backfist the guys face, and KO him with a left cross, all one step. The only "and then" in that situation is "And then you run away before someone calls the cops!"

GODDDD I H473 C0|\|C3P7S SOO MUCH!!!!!!

Hey i didnt say BJJ or kali or Silat dont work great, they do! I like some of their stuff. Especially BJJ. I just think that if you use them with JKD that you should not try to "meld them with JKD" but rather consider them seperate from JKD. Yea sure I use JKD, but if I find a particular Muay Thai elbow useful, I use it. I just dont call it JKD, I call it a Muay Thai Elbow. If i end up on the ground and use BJJ to break an arm, great, but I used BJJ. Not JKD.

See, Eventually JKD HAD to be crystallized in order to save it. Bruce Died. The Process of Change had to stop. That does'nt mean we cant expand on our OWN PERSONAL MA, but we have to preserve what bruce taught while he was alive, or we'll just end up with a bunch of garbled bullshit like JKD Concepts.

see my above post. I DO cross Train. but I discard what i dont like. there is a difference between everyone's personal way of fighting, and JKD, which is sort of like a base from which you develop that "personality" while making sure you have correct form.

and if you believe that there is no correct form, read Commentaries on the martial way. It says it right in there.

Can I get a Bruce Lee nutrider in here to spout off endless quotes from various sources, please? It's obvious that we need a JKD n00b nutrider who's read every book to combat this verbal garbage.

In all seriousness, if you've bothered to pay attention to any interview of Lee concerning JKD you'd have heard every "like water" comment and the various interpretations, one of which was that JKD is always evolving (or was). And it was not meant to be a "system" to be taught rigidly. Lee died, so what? So, if Lee dies suddenly JKD can't conform to his very own ideals? That's absurd. It had to be crystalized to save it? **** all, I guess that's why Judo is exactly the same now as it was the day Kano died....wait a minute! It isn't! Now that's an epiphany.

ONCE AGAIN. YOU CAN ADD TO YOUR OWN PERSONAL WAY OF FIGHTING BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT JKD. I am terribly sorry for the overuse of caps lock but I cant stand people telling me what i know and dont know.

I have never seen Ted Wong (BL's LAST student, who completely finished learning ALL of JKD.) use any kali or silat. Kali and Silat are NOT in JKD and they never will be. That doesnt mean you cant use them if you want to, I'm just saying that when bruce died, he could no longer add to HIS own personal way of fighting,(JKD) because he was dead. That doesnt mean we can't either.

The fact that Ted Wong does not use Kali or Silat is largely not at debate, as any JKD trained individual should note that there are two JKD's at work in any training program: the framework of JKD (first principles, trapping, centerline, etc.) and personal JKD. None of Lee's subsequent students-turned-master ever fought with the exact moveset that Lee himself used, because their personal JKD was not the same. Teach JKD to a wrestler and he will apply JKD to what he already knows. Teach it to a Judoka and again, he will apply it to what he already knows. Hence, teach it to an FMA practicioner (Inosanto) and he will utilize it with regards to his current training.

That said, Lee's own notes (as related countless times in countless books and interviews from Inosanto and others who knew him well) stated that he used a myriad of sources to create the framework of JKD, the very basis of his theories. Included in those were: savate (lead roundhouse kick and rear snapping kick to lead leg/chasse), boxing (footwork, jab and cross), muay thai (to a limited degree as his exposure was limited, but he used the rear roundhouse with shin, elbow and knee techniques), silat and kali (attack angles, speed and sheer attacking ferocity), wing chun (trapping work, speed emphasized over strength), burmese boxing (headbutts as weapon), and many, many others.

the problem lies with the rift between Inosanto (one of his main students) and Lee's family, Wong and Poteet. Each accuses the other of ruining JKD. In some small part, both are to blame. The Lee family style, WJKDF, has locked in or "crystalized", as you put it, something that was never meant to be taught in such a manner. Sure, the core concepts are the same, the very heart should be taught as it was meant to be, but they go too far when they make wild claims that anything you add to JKD makes it not JKD. Strange. Anything I add to water does not make it not water. Perhaps it is flavored water, dirty water, red water, green water, but it is still water. An irrational belief from moneygrubbing idiots who took everyone they could to court to get back...what? A style of fighting that these people were taught and given rank in. That's like selling a car, then coming back 5 years later and taking it back because you need it for a destruction derby...but you won't be paying the new owner for it. In fact, you'll be suing said owner for monetary recompense because they used your car over the 5 years. Apalling.

As for Inosanto and the Concepts side, they seem to have gone the opposite extreme, changing the core concepts or framework of JKD to reflect their own personal JKD. Adding more silat, escrima and kali techniques to the core of JKD is as bad as not teaching a student to add things to their own personal JKD. If they were smart, they'd all sit down, read a book or two, then stop hugging Lee's nuts long enough to figure out that they have two options: stick to the mandates of the founder of the art, through his many books on his JKD theory and his notes on JKD, or push the limit and adjust the style they were given by doing the same things that Lee himself did, ie. go around and fight, watch fights, and learn something new. That's the difference between MMA and JKD. MMA evolves everyday, everytime someone uses a new technique, everytime someone brings in new experience. JKD vs. MMA? That's like asking "steak or chicken"? Well, what kind of steak, what kind of chicken, how was it seasoned, how will it be served, what are the sides with it, etc. etc.

But, I still think we need a JKD n00b nutrider to spew out some Lee-isms for good measure. I always did like to hear the odd, mystical phraseology.

I have never seen Ted Wong (BL's LAST student, who completely finished learning ALL of JKD.) use any kali or silat. Kali and Silat are NOT in JKD and they never will be.
Nothing is "in JKD"!
It has all been said before, but, JEET KUNE DO is a philosophy. To look at it any other way is misguided. My school teaches 8 different classes and our school shirts say one thing at the top in big letters,

JEET KUNE DO
The philosophy that guides the training.

Underneath that is a list of the EIGHT different classes that are taught at our school. With two different classes going on at the same time, it is hard not to get sucked into cross-training. It is easy to look over at a different class and say, "Damn, that looks interesting."

Yes, we have a Jun Fan Gung Fu class...for those of us that want to learn the techniques that Bruce Lee researched, like, and taught.

Bruce Lee, in his prime, would beat Matt Hughes, enough said (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7yDcTY-EB7g).

See, now isn't that a little more like a good discussion involving JKD and MMA? see how refreshing a debate can be when you add Bruce Lee vs. Matt Hughes? So much better than "Well, Mr. Wong told me" and "Inosanto isn't teaching teh r34l JKD", etc. etc. We just get right down to the "vs." comments, where all good nutriders like to be. Whew, for a minute there I thought I'd have to do my own research and actually buy a *gasp* JKD book/Bruce Lee book to spew endless quotes about water, philosophy, and smoking opium.

Holy ****, after the last couple of pages, I'm starting to hate JKD. Using the WC "based on physics" argument was a fucking joke. A bad joke that wasn't funny.

don't be hating...

ONCE AGAIN. YOU CAN ADD TO YOUR OWN PERSONAL WAY OF FIGHTING BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT JKD. I am terribly sorry for the overuse of caps lock but I cant stand people telling me what i know and dont know.

I have never seen Ted Wong (BL's LAST student, who completely finished learning ALL of JKD.) use any kali or silat. Kali and Silat are NOT in JKD and they never will be. That doesnt mean you cant use them if you want to, I'm just saying that when bruce died, he could no longer add to HIS own personal way of fighting,(JKD) because he was dead. That doesnt mean we can't either.

I have not time at the moment, this is a bump to myself --but you are WRONG ON SO MANY LEVELS it is not even true - I shall be back......

Look I hate arguing about the concepts vs Jun Fan thing because nobody gets anywhere. I may not agree with the Concepts people's approach to training but if thats how you train i'm not gonna tell you its flat out WRONG to train like that, **** I dont have the authority to tell anyone that their method is wrong.
I

I dont agree with that approach to training; but to each his own.

There is no such thing as "t3h r34l JKD," because everyone's personal art is different

Necroth. I read that last post you put and I believe that your outline of the whole JFJKD vs. Concepts thing was very "on point". I figure that pretty much settles it, so why dont we take a break from Punching eachother in the face with our keyboards.

JKD vs. MMA= In the cage, the MMA dood is going to prolly win. On t3h s7r337 The JKD guy will most likely destroy the MMA guy.

Notice I didn't use any absolutes because it all depends on the skill level of the practitioner.