that is good advice...maybe I should branch out.

:occasion1
I train in JKD and also BJJ. What is the problem with training in both?
works for me and sure as **** more well rounded. Yup, MMA is exactly what JKD would be if Bruce was alive.

:occasion1
I train in JKD and also BJJ. What is the problem with training in both?


Nothing. It's a good thing.

Self-taught in Muay Thai? That seems like an awfully hard thing to do. There are only so many angles, you're correct, but there are two main roundhouse kicks (dtae), multiple targets and ways to reach them with a dtae, multiple counters to the dtae (teep, outward step, inward step, etc.) and every position and movement has a certain "perfect" technique, if you will, which requires an outside observer who is more schooled than you noting what you messed up and how to fix it. MT is like BJJ, Boxing, any art in actuality, in that the perfection of power, speed, skill and ability comes from outward adjustment of bad positioning. Without said adjustment, it would take you years to do what it takes most months.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57591

^^ Someone suggesting the same thing with Grappling arts. ^^

But on the topic of JKD vs. MMA, the JKD I've witnessed looked alot like every CMA form taken from speed based animal systems, ie. alot of trapping, the "center line" theory, speed punches emphasized over power punches, the idea that alot of little henpecks and retreats are worth more than power punches and taking hits, etc. I don't like that idea at all. I think blocking punches and kicks and delivering my own works mighty fine, especially considering the fact that all the Dim Mak and Mantis punching in the world has yet to show teh deadly one hit kill, but there are tons of two or three hit power combos that will end in a grisly knockout from a skilled boxer/kickboxer, as well as dozens of submissions that are absolutely breathtaking to see put against someone using single wrist control, a la Aikido or "Trapping".

My favorate is a forearm smash to the face followed by a quick snapping of the neck. Fancy crap, mantis style never works. Yup Dim mak my balls!

a nice chair to the side of the head works too :icon_chee

This book ???????

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=kr4qcYwAgs&isbn=0967015510&itm=24

Reading the reviews it just looks like a book on "dirty" bjj to me. So for self-defense it's prolly alright.

My favorate is a forearm smash to the face followed by a quick snapping of the neck. Fancy crap, mantis style never works. Yup Dim mak my balls!

a nice chair to the side of the head works too :icon_chee

Snapped many necks have you?

Bruce's notes are exactly that - HIS notes form his moment in time. It is likely his development would have been ongoing (his groundfighting was exceptionally limited for example).

Are you seriously saying that you can only see striking in MMA? Dude, I am so worried now!

*sighs* I've posted in threads I know you've read about how much I love to practice footwork. I've also given you a story of how I started my boxing characteristics and about ducking, an aspect I soon realized I needed to intensively work on. Footwork and ducking (in relation to the opponent's actions) in which a sense of distance and timing is needed; indirect attacks to create openings which also need to be supported by timing and distance manipulation. I've written about these several times and when I watch a match, it should be obvious what goes through my mind. Striking is dangerous if its only direct. Hannibal, stop assuming I'm at a total loss since I lack in school training. I'v written about what i like to think about, piece it together young jedi. Reading isn't understanding.

I'm not saying im BA, but with what industriousness I have I've managed an intermediate skill level. Necroth has said of things I can only speculate. In terms of lunging and powerful kicks I'll just have to mix the lunging Im already learning in my WTF club and hip rotation, followed my the Rd kick. Im don't think Ifigure out the dtae, outward step, inward step anytime soon and with out some instruction.

*bigger sigh* like I said I am NOT running down your aims or ambitions. I do not say you are at a total loss, but I do state that your methodology is flawed.

JKD unfortunately has a lot of intellectualisation about combat - books such as TOJKD et al tend to stimulate this propensity. The problem is that without "flight time" you may as well not bother reading. Take an example - "Timing and distance need to be relative to an opponents actions". Great, makes sense, a revelation etc...

But what does it actually mean? In real terms you can only learn it when facing someone throwing bombs at you - and when this happens you cannot afford to be thinking about what you are going to do, you have just got to do it.

This is the biggest dichotomy of JKD - what you need to do you cannot afford to think about doing - and without thinking about it how can you do it? Compare this the Tao Te Ching "The way that can be told is not the eternal way..."

I applaud your aims, I am just trying to put them in context.

What I don't like about JKD is that it attracts martial art geeks like **** attracts flies.

I think that can be said for ALL martial arts in fairness

I don't think so. The geeks tend to stay away from MMA and Muay Thai. Well, they at least go away after realizing it's hard work. Too many "JKD" places don't train effectively and live like MMA and Muay Thai, but there are some but I think most don't train hard.

Name the ones you have experience of then - I have trained in 3 for extended periods and all were blood and sweat factories

AZ Jkd in Phoenix, although I know the instructor, he admits it's a geek class.
PDSTC in Connecticut, while there are some hard drills, it's mostly a technique showcase.

Plus, I have to think that many of these people aren't athletic because I see many geeky and unathletic (as in don't seem to have worked hard at all) at the same JKD seminars every year.

Ahhhh seminars! Staple diet of the JKD-Lite brigade!

I am not familiar with the schools - are the JFJKD or JKDC? That is often a good indicator of where the general feel of teh club will lie

Dtae is the Thai word for "round kick". Like "Klob" for elbows, "teep" for front kicks, etc. I use dtae because I learned the dichotomy and breakdown of movements in a fairly traditional setup. In large part, though, I use it also to delineate the roundhouse of Muay Thai from the roundhouse most traditional martial arts teach, ie. shin vs. instep/foot kicks. Same with "teep". I will use teep to describe a forward kick using the heel as the application of force, but I will call the same kicks "push kicks" when speaking of other arts because, in large part, most other artforms use the toes, which are less effective.

Inward step and outward step describe the direction one travels in relation to a technique. Inward, obviously, comes into the technique, while outward steps out of it. An inward step on roundhouse is one that closes the distance, forcing the attack to stop short. And outward will cause an attack to miss or an attacker to overreach. These are just two of the defenses of a roundhouse. My point, though, to the comments I made was that, much like trying to build a grappling system based on first principles instead of training with experienced grapplers, you are "reinventing the wheel", which takes longer and is harder work than just training with an experienced instructor.

Without experience in the artform you are trying to emulate, you may train bad habits into your game. A roundhouse with improper hip turnover, not blocking correctly to counter the hook/cross counterpunches that opponents send in at you, hitting with the ankle or instep instead of shin, no snap to the end of the kic, no follow through, bad "core" positioning of the torso during kick, improper cocking or release of the knee, bad balance point during kickthrough, not developing full power due to overreaching at apex, etc. etc. There are literally dozens of little, subtle things you should get right to deliver a kick at "perfection", which is the goal of training, and without someone who can critique your form and correct problems, any of these could cause you to lose significant power returns. And this is just one tchnique, imagine how many small problems you will accumulate across all of the techniques you self-learn, adding up to years and years of self-learning that makes your form look like a 3 month student of a Muay Thai trainer.