OK SLICK, to start with notice the name ? Sharkonis, lets guess what nationality that come from, not forum call sign but family name ,

Second point, pank got its name out there to sell memberships in McDojos. What you are refering to is commonly known as GRECO-ROMAN WRESTLING.

You my freind are watching to much TV, i,e, The Discovery Channel. get your facts, then we can chat


You don't believe that there was any ancient pankration? I'd agree that what is done today is just such a thing but that doesn't through out of the fact that there was pankration.

oh I know what I'm talking about, I've competed in Greco for 6 years I know exactly what it is, I also know that Greco-roman wrestling started in france in the 19th century, did you?
Modern Pankration is NOT what I am talking about, perhaps you should look into a few people named: Arrichion, Dioxippus, or Polydamos they competed in pankration in the ancient olympics but of course you already knew that, just chose to ignore it. Of course you also know legend says it was invented by hercules and Theseus which even though it is probably just a legend definitely puts it in an era far predating Bruce Lee, you also of course know about xenophanes who wrote about pankration in the 5th century BC. and you yourself were probably the one who faked all those vases and other ancient works depicting/describing Pankration, and describing it as a different event than wrestling(which by the way has absolutely no connection to modern greco-roman either). so I guess since you already knew all that your just an idiot.

And even if I were wrong about pankration JKD is still preceded by the kodokan's challenges, legitimate professional wrestling, vale tudo, the gracie challenge, anytime praticioners of 2 different martial arts had a bar fight.

And for your information I DON'T OWN A TV

Also do you really believe their is more than one MMA because your statement certainly seems to imply that, and are you claiming JKD is actually an art?

Do your own goddamn homework before you talk to me about thing you are obviously quite ignorant about, and by the way yes I am familiar with the name Sarkonis, but I don't give a damn where the hell your from.

No, no it wasn't. we had pankration at some godawfully long time ago, several thousand years BC. there were exhibition matches all over the place in the 19th century, there was professional wrestling in the 19th century, there was vale tudo and the gracie challenge in brazil starting about the 1920's, there were the people Kano sent all around the world to promote judo, the kodokan had challenge matches against all sorts of jujitsu schools for many years, and I'm sure I'm forgetting many examples. So no JKD is by no means one of the first MMA's. if there is even such a thing as an MMA. and wether it is or isn't has absolutely nothing to do with anything brandon lee may have said.

I know the point you are making, but it is not technically correct. Challenge matches are NOT mma - they are inter-style fights a la the early UFC's. Remember that the protaganists were stating "Our style is best". JKD states "No style is best"

MMA is a contemporary style that is a result of evolution from those challenge matches.

I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event. I don't think you can say there is any one style which is MMA, I believe modern MMA has 3 main styles which are Sprawl and brawl, Ground and pound, and submissions, and variations and combinations of those. however I can see where you come from and why you would consider it a style.
However, Pankration and early professional wrestling still fit the bill in that case as 'mma's' that long preceded JKD(which I don't think is a style anyway so the whole point is moot). Judo fits too, as it was created using elements of several different schools/styles of jujitsu. I think shoot fighting may as well.

You don't believe that there was any ancient pankration? I'd agree that what is done today is just such a thing but that doesn't through out of the fact that there was pankration.

Im not say that at all, I suggest you use the internet search engines on the topic. I choose not to offended anyone by what I know to true,

I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event. I don't think you can say there is any one style which is MMA, I believe modern MMA has 3 main styles which are Sprawl and brawl, Ground and pound, and submissions, and variations and combinations of those. however I can see where you come from and why you would consider it a style.
However, Pankration and early professional wrestling still fit the bill in that case as 'mma's' that long preceded JKD(which I don't think is a style anyway so the whole point is moot). Judo fits too, as it was created using elements of several different schools/styles of jujitsu. I think shoot fighting may as well.

You are partially correct, yet incorrect. When I hear the term MmA, I apply it to myself as a practioner of half a dozen arts over a 30 year period and training in MMA is not event. There for it would be senseless to claim MMA as event rather than what it trully is , Straight forward, no tradition,
right out of the box on " lessons on how to stomp ass.

Im not say that at all, I suggest you use the internet search engines on the topic. I choose not to offended anyone by what I know to true,

What would I be looking for on these internet search engines? What the hell does the second sentance mean? You choose not to be offnded? You choose not to offend? Please clearify.

I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event.

Only latterly - they were called NHB in the beginning


I don't think you can say there is any one style which is MMA, I believe modern MMA has 3 main styles which are Sprawl and brawl, Ground and pound, and submissions, and variations and combinations of those.

These are strategies rather than styles. Compare this to boxing when you have dancers, boxers, brawlers, counter-punchers etc


however I can see where you come from and why you would consider it a style.

fair enough - we have an "agree to disagree"! This happens occasionally on bullshido...please do not be alarmed!


However, Pankration and early professional wrestling still fit the bill in that case as 'mma's' that long preceded JKD(

Pro-wrestling less so. It was a composite of other WRESTLING styles, not other styles per se. Arguably early 19th century boxing was more of an MMA as it contained punches, kicks and the odd throw or two (look up "cross buttock"...just like a hip throw).

Pankration is closer to the mark, but even this was considered a form in it's own right rather thana synthesis of separate styles. It is possible that it was a mixture of wrestling and boxing (both events in the ancient world) with a different rules set.

However, don't foregt that it "died out". Interestingly, JKD was never claimed to be anything new by Bruce - it was a "rediscovery" of the original intention of combative systems


which I don't think is a style anyway so the whole point is moot).

100% correct


Judo fits too, as it was created using elements of several different schools/styles of jujitsu.

Judo is another school of JJ - that is why it is not strictly an MMA per se (more of MJJ!)


I think shoot fighting may as well.

Possibly - although this came AFTER JKD - 1976 I think with Inoki

JKD and MMA have the same philosophy for different goals - "take what works". Like I said in an earlier post, my JKD includes stick, knife, firearms as well as H2H. Most modern MMA competitions tend to frown upon the use of guns in teh cage...)

It is a PRINCIPLE not an exhaustive list of techniques (like some on here seem to be claiming).

I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event. I don't think you can say there is any one style which is MMA, I believe modern MMA has 3 main styles which are Sprawl and brawl, Ground and pound, and submissions, and variations and combinations of those. however I can see where you come from and why you would consider it a style.
However, Pankration and early professional wrestling still fit the bill in that case as 'mma's' that long preceded JKD(which I don't think is a style anyway so the whole point is moot). Judo fits too, as it was created using elements of several different schools/styles of jujitsu. I think shoot fighting may as well.

It would seem MMA has evolved into having a dual meaning. Many actually profess to teach it as a style these days while others use it solely to refer to an explicit rule set.

Ultimately it matters not whether those who practice "MMA" endorse a unique style set or not, but if what they're doing is practical and effective. Arguing over martial arts taxonomy is too difficult given most modern MA styles are a blend of things and technically "mixed" martial arts. It would seem according to this model that MMA(style), MMA(sport), and mixed martial arts are each different things and at this point I stop caring.

I've long since given up arguing over whether JKD is a style, but I won't stop questioning training methods.

I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event.
in the 90s yes...unfortunately, it has developed into a style.

Okay, this thread’s confusing me.

On two points touched on here, the definition of MMA seems more like a college curriculum. For instance, if you take up Liberal Arts as your major, you’ll go through a huge myriad of subject in each semester in order to gain your degree. Be it Art History, graphic design, mathematics, literature, etc. But they all mesh together to create the cohesive whole. Personally, I’d have to lean toward the, “MMA is more of a ruleset than a style” theory, since there are so many practitioners of the sport, yet they don’t all have exactly similar methods of approach.

I guess a good example would be CroCop, who is a Striker from kickboxing/Muay Thai background and practices BJJ as a secondary, while Josh Barnett is a Catch Wrestler with very little Jujitsu influence and Boxing as a back up. The same could be said for Minotauro, Paul Daley, Masakazu Imanari, Wand, Melvin Manhoef or Igor Vovchanchyn. They all participate in MMA, but their effective approaches are drastically different toward the very same goal.

As far as Jeet Kune Do, dammit, it was a loose, evolving concept that Bruce worked on and still doesn’t have any real solidified system to it. As said before, Jeet Kune Do is basically the prototype for what our sport is of today. The only serious difference is that he wasn’t keen on rules, so his was more geared toward the lack thereof. Yet the techniques (sans some dirty tricks) were almost exactly the same.

im a noob so if i missed a post on this dont get too pissed.

the dirty tricks/no rules **** is a bit overhyped by "reality" systems. as if what we do isnt real. i mean who hear is honestly gonna avoid kneeing the guy on the street cause it was outlawed in your last ring fight.
another thing is most non-sport oriented systems are so full of that "always works" bullshit. im in russia and got suprised and subbed by a guy who shoved his chin into my eye. told this to this chinese martial arts ninja warrior wierdo and he said the counter for all subs is to pull up on the pressure point below the nose.
now, some dirty **** causes damage, whereas many just cause pain. i have pulled up on peoples noses, especially in trying to get a rear naked choke for example, to get the guy to lift his chin for a second. but our sport, our endeavor is pain. so if something hurts and i know i wont pass out or nothing will snap, who of us is really gonna give up?
the wins in mma are not a far cry from those on the street.
now, im not dogging jkd, but i came from a traditional martial art background when i was younger and am incredibly anti and bitter. but one thing i know is that sport styles train better than any style ive encountered.
tma guys , even if they do grappling or striking [straight forward i mean] are stuck in their asian pajama cult, and self-defence schools have a few other problems going for them. they, for example, attract **** people. bad shape, no aggression, absenteeism and the like. everyone thinks that once the attack is over that theres no need to **** the guy up. god forbid he turn around and do it again. also, the people it attracts are in my experience much less serious, less athletic, and less willing to endure pain. so the material gets watered down.
krav maga is an example. the strikes, however well or poorly taught, are muay thai. even when i did it i knew the grappling sucks. but the self defence is solid: get his hands off and beat him till he stops moving. no frills, no chi.........but its all housewives. so scenarios are played down, the stress is on victory in class rather than struggle. but thats the money factor.
ive got no experience in jkd, and none in filipino martial arts, but the trapping **** to me looks like bull. i really cant imagine sticking my hands in front of my chest and expecting the other guy to do the same. that seems pretty obvious to all of us i hope, but ive seen jkd people transition into dog brothers, something i know of only as a spectator on the net unfortunately, and they seem to do ok.
these fringe good or ok styles seem to only shine when they imitate what others do. like karate guys for example. which ones succeed. the ones doing kata in the ring, or the ones with strikes amazingly similar to boxing and muay thai. curious..............
but there are some dirty tricks that seem simple and great and really would change the direction of a fight. one i saw on what was otherwise a bullshit vid. while passing a right jab from the opponent with your left hand, for exaple, just throw a right cutting elbow. damn good chance of hitting him in the knuckles. fw times and you broke it. not bad.
also saw a backwards half nelson that turns into a brutal neck lock, and seems damn easy to get. if you pass the head, you already got it.
but when you get a style doing these all the time, you lose the outlet for aggression and expression and thus the people who really want to kick ass. so thats the trade off.
now im not gonnna touch on jkd, all i know is it has that wing chung influence and is relatively mma like in other aspects. but its not a commonly seen discipline in major fight circuits, striking or otherwise.

im a noob so if i missed a post on this dont get too pissed.

the dirty tricks/no rules **** is a bit overhyped by "reality" systems. as if what we do isnt real. i mean who hear is honestly gonna avoid kneeing the guy on the street cause it was outlawed in your last ring fight.
another thing is most non-sport oriented systems are so full of that "always works" bullshit. im in russia and got suprised and subbed by a guy who shoved his chin into my eye. told this to this chinese martial arts ninja warrior wierdo and he said the counter for all subs is to pull up on the pressure point below the nose.
now, some dirty **** causes damage, whereas many just cause pain. i have pulled up on peoples noses, especially in trying to get a rear naked choke for example, to get the guy to lift his chin for a second. but our sport, our endeavor is pain. so if something hurts and i know i wont pass out or nothing will snap, who of us is really gonna give up?
the wins in mma are not a far cry from those on the street.
now, im not dogging jkd, but i came from a traditional martial art background when i was younger and am incredibly anti and bitter. but one thing i know is that sport styles train better than any style ive encountered.
tma guys , even if they do grappling or striking [straight forward i mean] are stuck in their asian pajama cult, and self-defence schools have a few other problems going for them. they, for example, attract **** people. bad shape, no aggression, absenteeism and the like. everyone thinks that once the attack is over that theres no need to **** the guy up. god forbid he turn around and do it again. also, the people it attracts are in my experience much less serious, less athletic, and less willing to endure pain. so the material gets watered down.
krav maga is an example. the strikes, however well or poorly taught, are muay thai. even when i did it i knew the grappling sucks. but the self defence is solid: get his hands off and beat him till he stops moving. no frills, no chi.........but its all housewives. so scenarios are played down, the stress is on victory in class rather than struggle. but thats the money factor.
ive got no experience in jkd, and none in filipino martial arts, but the trapping **** to me looks like bull. i really cant imagine sticking my hands in front of my chest and expecting the other guy to do the same. that seems pretty obvious to all of us i hope, but ive seen jkd people transition into dog brothers, something i know of only as a spectator on the net unfortunately, and they seem to do ok.
these fringe good or ok styles seem to only shine when they imitate what others do. like karate guys for example. which ones succeed. the ones doing kata in the ring, or the ones with strikes amazingly similar to boxing and muay thai. curious..............
but there are some dirty tricks that seem simple and great and really would change the direction of a fight. one i saw on what was otherwise a bullshit vid. while passing a right jab from the opponent with your left hand, for exaple, just throw a right cutting elbow. damn good chance of hitting him in the knuckles. fw times and you broke it. not bad.
also saw a backwards half nelson that turns into a brutal neck lock, and seems damn easy to get. if you pass the head, you already got it.
but when you get a style doing these all the time, you lose the outlet for aggression and expression and thus the people who really want to kick ass. so thats the trade off.
now im not gonnna touch on jkd, all i know is it has that wing chung influence and is relatively mma like in other aspects. but its not a commonly seen discipline in major fight circuits, striking or otherwise.

im a noob so if i missed a post on this dont get too pissed.

the dirty tricks/no rules **** is a bit overhyped by "reality" systems. as if what we do isnt real. i mean who hear is honestly gonna avoid kneeing the guy on the street cause it was outlawed in your last ring fight.
another thing is most non-sport oriented systems are so full of that "always works" bullshit. im in russia and got suprised and subbed by a guy who shoved his chin into my eye. told this to this chinese martial arts ninja warrior wierdo and he said the counter for all subs is to pull up on the pressure point below the nose.
now, some dirty **** causes damage, whereas many just cause pain. i have pulled up on peoples noses, especially in trying to get a rear naked choke for example, to get the guy to lift his chin for a second. but our sport, our endeavor is pain. so if something hurts and i know i wont pass out or nothing will snap, who of us is really gonna give up?
the wins in mma are not a far cry from those on the street.
now, im not dogging jkd, but i came from a traditional martial art background when i was younger and am incredibly anti and bitter. but one thing i know is that sport styles train better than any style ive encountered.
tma guys , even if they do grappling or striking [straight forward i mean] are stuck in their asian pajama cult, and self-defence schools have a few other problems going for them. they, for example, attract **** people. bad shape, no aggression, absenteeism and the like. everyone thinks that once the attack is over that theres no need to **** the guy up. god forbid he turn around and do it again. also, the people it attracts are in my experience much less serious, less athletic, and less willing to endure pain. so the material gets watered down.
krav maga is an example. the strikes, however well or poorly taught, are muay thai. even when i did it i knew the grappling sucks. but the self defence is solid: get his hands off and beat him till he stops moving. no frills, no chi.........but its all housewives. so scenarios are played down, the stress is on victory in class rather than struggle. but thats the money factor.
ive got no experience in jkd, and none in filipino martial arts, but the trapping **** to me looks like bull. i really cant imagine sticking my hands in front of my chest and expecting the other guy to do the same. that seems pretty obvious to all of us i hope, but ive seen jkd people transition into dog brothers, something i know of only as a spectator on the net unfortunately, and they seem to do ok.
these fringe good or ok styles seem to only shine when they imitate what others do. like karate guys for example. which ones succeed. the ones doing kata in the ring, or the ones with strikes amazingly similar to boxing and muay thai. curious..............
but there are some dirty tricks that seem simple and great and really would change the direction of a fight. one i saw on what was otherwise a bullshit vid. while passing a right jab from the opponent with your left hand, for exaple, just throw a right cutting elbow. damn good chance of hitting him in the knuckles. fw times and you broke it. not bad.
also saw a backwards half nelson that turns into a brutal neck lock, and seems damn easy to get. if you pass the head, you already got it.
but when you get a style doing these all the time, you lose the outlet for aggression and expression and thus the people who really want to kick ass. so thats the trade off.
now im not gonnna touch on jkd, all i know is it has that wing chung influence and is relatively mma like in other aspects. but its not a commonly seen discipline in major fight circuits, striking or otherwise.

TRIPLE POST FOR THE WIN!!!

TRIPLE POST WITH NO FUCKING SPACES FTW!!!!

Khornelius, your new Avatar is distinctly disturbing.....