CMA needs MORE people like Novell Bell and less pedantic form-fairy fantasy dickholes.

Arbiter... that avatar is fucking priceless!! I wonder how ol' super soke is doing?!

novell bell claims that he does pa kua in competitions, but does kick boxing.

that's my point.

Be punches and kicks people that's true. How is it not baguazhang? You are an idiot. Too many years of TCMA have turned your brains to mush and made you speak nonesense like this here:



this thread is about pa kua??? - I'm discussing pakua???, not pa kua.

:wtfgif9fr are you trying to say here?

There's no god damned difference you moron!

Bagua, pakua, pa kwa, baguazhang, p'akuachang....it's all the same damn thing. And what are all those random question marks supposed to indicate?

Are you making some feeble attempt at being pedantic (as if that was a good thing) and expecting someone to believe that the addition or a space between the words "pa" and "kua" makes a difference?

I fart in your general direction.:5badair:

That crap shown on the pakua website is hideous. It is not bagua but some made up hodge podge garbage that runs rampant here in the west.

reminds me of Oon Yang Doe/Chung Mu Doe and their version of Pakua.

Novell Shrfu gets big respect for stepping up as well as having decent skills.

Simo,

You are either brain damaged or warped to think that crap is anything but the fradulent poop it is. You really need to do some basic research before you mouth off about others who step up and represent.

Quote:
Pa-Kua develops every part of the human anatomy by generating a proper flow of energy within the body. The movements are studied to provide an internal massage of the organs as well as develop in the student an unparallel coordination of movements coupled with improved mind/body communication.


Coordination like this? http://www.pakua.org/martialarts/Chuan/Chuan3.mpg

Om Yang Doe is still alive and well.

That clip is awful. Like 3 step sparring applied to bagua

Taking a closer look at their site I noticed they have ignored the last character which is historically linked with Bagua, that of Zhang/Chang/Jerng(palm).

They also have split the radical for Kua/Gua into two pieces and that is totally unacceptable. You dont mix up the Chinese, well you can but it points to your ignorance of basic Chinese and Bagua material in general.

Does anyone have experience with the Yin Fu - Xie Peiqi - He Jinbao BaGua lineage? A link can be found at http://www.traditionalstudies.org/ysb I know that there are study groups and I thought the site was an interesting read.

I have all kinds of issue with that particular lineage but whatever. Not that imprtant really. If you want details of what I don't like about them I can give them but I'd rather pm them as I am friendly with a handfull of people who train that stuff.

To each his own.

Dale,

You must have missed my post on page 1 when this thread came up the first time around.


I'm personally fond of this certificate he displays so proudly on his site:

http://www.pakua.org/gifs/TransferCard1.gif

It makes no sense at all. The first half is written in the first person. Since when do certificates of transmission start off, "I am the only disciple of...." Second, the grammar is ****. 3rd, the last "sentence" is illegible to foreigners and Chinese alike. I have showed it to native Chinese, people who speak Cantonese and attempted to decode it myself. It strikes me as the kind of thing that happens when you try to use a dictionary to write in a foreign language. Maybe if I used spainish grammar to decode it it would make sense.


To add to that . .. aw **** it. There's nothing to add. The "certificate" is essentially gibbereish. I am just noticing more things about it that are absurd that I didn't notice the first time around.

This pakua.org is a close second but they lack the abundance of goofy pictures to make fun of so it takes more work to get worked up over their stupidity. I'm personally find of this certificate he displays so proudly on his site:

http://www.pakua.org/gifs/TransferCard1.gif

It makes no sense at all.


Read below for explination of the certificate posted at pakua.org.

it proves that they are completely fake or mislead:

> Dear Jae,
>
> can you please tell me about this certificate?:
> http://www.pakua.org/gifs/TransferCard1.gif
> is it real?
> What language is it?
>
> Thank you. - Simo



Dear Simo,

It 'kind of' reads (written in broken Chinese);

"I, hereby, grant the permission and authority to my only and wise
disciple, Rooseelo Giordano (??), in teaching and spreading authentic
traditional training methods and traditional Pa Koa. At the same time, I
grant the title of the Principal to the person written in the right (i.e.,
Rooseelo Giordano) who is entitled to award level certificates (i.e., Dan)
with the official [Pa Koa] logo/seal."


Now, general observation part:

Without physically examine the specimen in person, I cannot judge the
authenticity of this certificate, of course.

Type of Chinese characters used in this certificate is rather 'older'
literary style, i.e., traditional Chinese (used primarily in Taiwan and
Hong Kong nowadays), not the one used in China since 60's -- gives some
hints on age and origin of the person who wrote this certificate.

One that strikes me most is the complete lack of reference to a
school/style/branch/generation of 'Pa Koa' as well as the name of
writer/teacher in this certificate. (which is really the whole idea of a
certificate -- a sense of lineage)

Grammar of this 'older' style writing is very shaky (or a downright bad
composition -- run-on sentences and incorrect placement of verbs), as well
as some references are written in incorrect Chinese letters (same
pronounciation but wrong character). Level of calligraphical competence
is moderate yet it exhibits that one had some training in calligraphy.

I wonder what type/material of paper would be that this certificate was
written on -- which would tell more about its age. Putting/pasting
writer's photograph is somewhat unheard of in this traditional/official
certificate's context, maybe the writer was trying to facilitate a sense
of visual reference (of the teacher) to non-Chinese awardee/disciple
(i.e., Rooseelo Giordano).

I would be most interested in seeing the zoomed-in, writer's red seal in
the lower-left corner -- that would tell me the name of the writer/school
most succinctly.

Jae

There's no need for all that.

I can read Chinese and he's full of ****. I don't have time to go into detail right now but I will later. It reads exactly like the kind of garbage you get when you try to do translation with a dictionary and no knowledge of the language. Ever use babblefish or whatever that online translator is to translate a Chinese web page? Remember how strange and mysterious the result was? THAT is what we have here.

I have to go to work but I promise to go over his piece of **** "certificate" line by line on my lunch break. It will be a pleasure.

Oh yeah...lame fucking excuse about the older Chinese style.

I can read classical Chinese too.

I also have an authentic example of what that certificate is supposed to be that I could post for comparison if there are any other actual Chinese readers on this thread. There's a few on this cite but I don't know if they are following this piece of comedy or not.

Oh yeah...lame fucking excuse about the older Chinese style.

I can read classical Chinese too.

I also have an authentic example of what that certificate is supposed to be that I could post for comparison if there are any other actual Chinese readers on this thread. There's a few on this cite but I don't know if they are following this piece of comedy or not.
I can try to read yours. I was really puzzled by Simo's translator's note. I can't make head or tails of the certificate, whereas he actually tried to make something out of it.

Exactly my point.

Thank you.

I have to go to class in about 10 minutes so no time to try and explain why that piece of crap on the previous page makes no sense but in the meantime, you can take a look at this and if you are so inclined you can explan some of the differences to folks since I know you read Chinese.

I am in a rush right now.

links:

Title page:
http://photo.163.com/openpic.php?user=bailewen&pid=177375866&_dir=%2F8383265

Inscription on the first page:
http://photo.163.com/openpic.php?user=bailewen&pid=177376305&_dir=%2F8383265

My name doesn't show up on the front page but I have the photo's of me and him at the cermony tucked into the back of the book and the letter that was read in front of all the other disciples at the bai shi ceremony as well.

As ppromised...

The text of his "certificate" in simplified Chinese is all I have installed in my computer. It reads:

我唯一之贤明之弟子Roosevelt Giordano 传统的方法而传来而八卦 Pa Koa 指导普及为榷限附兴之同时右记者院长职位及下场赐资格任命为原纹章受兴也。

Their explanation:

"I, hereby, grant the permission and authority to my only and wise
disciple, Rooseelo Giordano (??), in teaching and spreading authentic
traditional training methods and traditional Pa Koa. At the same time, I
grant the title of the Principal to the person written in the right (i.e.,
Rooseelo Giordano) who is entitled to award level certificates (i.e., Dan)
with the official [Pa Koa] logo/seal."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I take back a lot of what I had previously said.

Basically, if it was written in truly classical Chinese it kind of makes sense. The problems are just what was already stated.

No name of the master stated, he didn't sign it.

His chop is not clear.

No lineage.

For such classical Chinese it is odd that the calligraphy is so mediocre. I'll offer a better translation after I've thought it over a bit.

Title page:
http://photo.163.com/openpic.php?user=bailewen&pid=177375866&_dir=%2F8383265

Inscription on the first page:
http://photo.163.com/openpic.php?user=bailewen&pid=177376305&_dir=%2F8383265

My name doesn't show up on the front page but I have the photo's of me and him at the cermony tucked into the back of the book and the letter that was read in front of all the other disciples at the bai shi ceremony as well.
Obviously reading Omar's scans can't prove legitimacy, but I can definitely say that the writer writes with propriety about his lineage and the art.
EDIT: what i mean by propriety: the writer believes himself to be speaking seriously about this art and writes in appropriately serious tone.

He explains his lineage:
I got my Baji from my master,
Nanjing Chinese Arts School Schoolmaster Zhang [something i can't read],
who passed it to me,
Xi'an Chinese Martial Arts School Vice-schoolmaster Li Suiyin.

Notable differences:
Omar's is dated and signed, so you could try to track this person down.
Omar's writer's Chinese is not garbled.
Omar's is written on what appears to be any old piece of paper, nothing special.
Omar's has a seal with the institution the writer claims, so again you could try to find that place. PaKoa's makes little effort to identify the writer.

Omar, I'm not familiar with the phrase ci3 lu4, this road. Does that have to do with lineage?