Do you enjoy being neck-cranked, you know...quickly and forcefully? Or mabye a knee in the face that's just a little too hard? Or an elbow that connects instead of a hook? That's what happens to wankers who cross-face all the time in practice.

I didn't name any dangerous technique. I've been KO'ed in sparring, I don't consider that dangerous. Just because someone hits you harder than they need to, or cranks a neck crank a little faster doesn't mean you get injured, it just means you get hurt.

Don't be a *****.

Ok, so you're a ***** too. Crossfacing is essential takedown defense. Ask any REAL wrestler. Not only that, but it keeps the person who's shooting from sticking their head out all over the place. Its valuable for both partners. Just because it hurts too much for you pussies doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. And if you come across someone doing it too much, it just means that you fucking suck at keeping your head tucked.

Oh, and banning moves or retaliating in a dangerous manner, because something hurts is fucking bullshit. Not fagging out about actual sparring being too painful is one of the things that seperates BJJ, and other effective **** from arts that don't work. In fact, just today we were drilling cranking guillotine chokes as the person on top worked to crossface or choke his way out during the escape. My partner was over 200lbs so he head a lot of pressure to put on in either postion. My neck hurts. My spine hurts. My face hurts. But I'm not a ***** so thats cool.

Yeah, and you can do a knuckle or thumb in the jaw hinge, knuckle in an eye socket, fish hook, grinding an elbow on a face, manipulating small joints and a whole bunch of other **** too.

But if you try that on the higher belts at our school they'll probably choke you unconscious and re-arrange your body in a homosexual position.

In fact, someone on my former wrestling team was just killed when he got his nexk popped.

Do you have any proof for this? I'm collecting case reports and the like; one of my writing projects involves the effectiveness of various spinal and neck dislocation techniques.

Extra hard hits as well as extra fast nexk cranks lead to injuries. In fact, someone on my former wrestling team was just killed when he got his nexk popped. On the other hand, cross faces are designed to turn your head, not to hurt you in any manner. There's a difference.

I can hurt you, I can even hurt you a lot, without injuring you. I don't NEED to do that in training, but I can, and I know enough to be able to avoid injuring you in the process...but why? People grapple to learn how to grapple, not how to tolerate pain.


But if you try that on the higher belts at our school they'll probably choke you unconscious and re-arrange your body in a homosexual position.

http://people.ucsc.edu/~alexo/pictures/Hitler%20and%20Mussolini%20think%20different%20cop y.jpg
LMNAO!


One would think that the higher belts know how to shoot in a manner that makes it a moot point. Crossfacing is different from foul tactics in that it a reliable and effective takedown defense as is taught by legit grappling arts. Its the best encouragement to shoot properly. it never causes injuries however. You don't like it, move your face out of the way. Simple as that.

Neck cranks that utilize all my body weight and base are legitimate submissions, and if I make you tap 5 times instead of once as I'm puting it on...well, it's difficult to extract myself from some of them quickly, which might end up being too bad for you, but oh well, you're not a *****, a little pain is nothing to you!

In fact, in your case I'd expect a thank you, considering I'd taught you a lesson in pain tolerance, which you seem to value so highly, as well as how not to grapple.


Do you have any proof for this? I'm collecting case reports and the like; one of my writing projects involves the effectiveness of various spinal and neck dislocation techniques.

I once had my neck hyperextended by a Judo BB. I shot for the double leg, he got double underhooks, he swept my near (left) foot out from under me and crucifixed me CRUNCH, I had no time to even realize what happened before I was in shock...the closest I've ever come to a broken neck, it never quite KO'ed me, but I was in shock for about an hour and in pain for weeks.

The only proof I can offer is my name, Geordie McCredie, and where it happened, the Campbell River Judo Club, I don't remember the name of the guy who did it to me (my memories of that day in general are kinda fuzzy), but it's possible I could find out.

I was training with a bigger stronger guy who kept cross-facing me with no legit submission in mind.

This was only in grappling though, and a couple months later when he started sparring MMA, first time, I punched him across the ring into a corner until he verbally submitted and started whining that I was going too hard and fast. I smiled and said no problem, and in the pouty scowl he threw back at me, I knew that he knew, he was the bitch.

Douchebaggery begets douchebaggery.

Relying on power over technique=Pain for fucktards.
I love stories like that..every dog has its day.Heh heh
Personally, in wrestling I crossface when I get frustrated, but usually not before.

You're a *****. Keep your fucking head tucked and its a non issue to begin with. You should be punished for shitty takedowns, not allowed to do them because the counter is just too mean. If you don't wanna be hit, take up XMA or some ****. Then at least you'll look cool.

It's funny you should say this. Rhadi Ferguson, an Olympic level judo competitor from the U.S., posted some pics on his takedown techniques a while back here on Bullshido. I noticed in the pictures that his head was not tucked and sent him a PM asking him why.
He never responded.
This was one of the first things taught to me when I started to wrestle in grade 8.

this is the only cross face I use

http://www.eyetide.com/content/repository/images/ec/01/54/53/1545331.jpg

Raynor, I don't use malicious neck cranks on students BECAUSE NO STUDENT HAS EVER BEEN THAT BIG OF A DOUCHEBAG TO ME.

However, I have used'em when I was NOT instructing and had NO responsibility for their safety...pain comes before injury. ****, I used to do'em to my little cousin all the time just screwing around. Without injury.

If you can't feel the difference between a joint that's about to break and one that isn't...that's a problem I don't share with you. I can ease into a neck crank and I guaran-fucking-tee that it WILL hurt and WILL NOT injure. I can crank it past the just hurting point and it will still only be a minor injury.

Whether or not you believe it:

BREAKING SOMEBODY'S NECK IS NOT EASY, YOU HAVE TO WANT TO, OR BE A FUCKING RETARDED NEANDERTHAL.

I'm not going to argue the rest with you because I don't care, the cross-face you're talking about isn't the worst kind, and not what I was complaining about to begin with, it's only mildly annoying, and I obviously know to keep my head tucked.

Anyway:


Reverse crucifix should do it in a snap.

LOL, this is true IF it's done in an uncontrolled manner, which is NOT what I was talking about, but good one anyway. :D

You can crossface without being a dick. I turn the head after my wrist/forearm has made contact with the face. In other words, no wind up. This way my training partner's neck gets rotated without injury, and the bad habit is still being punished. I will admit that this option is not always available at full speed sparring.

^ EXACTLY ^

as for everyone under the sun being a "*****"
have you wondered why we are training bjj/judo/whatever INSTEAD of wresting?? maybe its because we dont want to come home and go to work with a face looking like a ground steak

raynor, can you grasp the concept that not everyone has the same opinions as yourself?? just because they disagree with you does not make them wrong. i stand by my points made earlier.

and yes i agree that i am a "*****" i dont enjoy pain so i tap when it hurts. i dont have a problem with that, but if you rely on a pain technique to work when it matters then thats your own problem

I am confused. Where is Raynor advocating dickhead levels of pain compliance submissions via crossfacing? Do we discard such a tool because pain is too icky? Without it, how would *you* (the indefinite you) hold side control or control the head during a sprawl?

In general, I don't like any techniques that can hurt my looks. If somebody gives me a bruise, scratch, or a rash, I get hissy and start scratching and hair-pulling. If I'm doing BJJ instead of sparring, it's because I don't want to get hit/hurt. Fucking Brazillian Kama-Sutra queers.

this is the only cross face I use

http://www.eyetide.com/content/repository/images/ec/01/54/53/1545331.jpgThat's actually a legit submission, depending on the rules.