I do it when I can, but not as hard as I can. I also grind ribs with my fists and pinch.

No tickling?

Only on the good looking guys.......er, gals.

Only on the good looking guys.......er, gals.


It's times like this I'm glad we never went to grappling on the same days =P

I get cross faced all the time, I also get the chin from time to time when I think I actually have the choke. Its common at my level of skill. I just tap, and tell the guy why I tapped. I've never had anyone get upset from me trying to choke out their chin. I have also been coached by blue and purple belts to apply pressure to the chin/neck area if I am having trouble getting position in side control or if I'm having trouble posturing up in someone's guard.

I just look at it as part of life. Its like an armbar, sometimes the guy is a dick and slams it on hard, othertimes the guy will be nice to you and let you tap. As long as he has the control not to break my bones then I'm ok. Its the mutual benifit and welfare part of the judo training.

Now in competition I've always been told that what the ref cant see is legal. And in judo the refs dont seem to look so hard.

If i sink a modified RNC (well, depending on what you call it. Simply put, i grab my own shoulder ratherthen the crease of my arm for more squeeze), andthey stick there chin in there- i'll just gently increase the torque until there jaw breaks (or long before that, they tap out).

Is this different then crossfacing? Is it dirty? Im told by various people that they tap because when i do this they either; Are experiancing a neck crank, are stil being choked (yes, so tight that even with the chin in, theyre gassing); or they're jaw hurts. - sometimes a combination of any and all of the three.

I've never given this much thought until now.

Other then that though, i don't really cross face... in that, I'll push the head, or side of the face- but not for the purpose or effect of hurting there face, but simply manipulating there head to immobolize them or rob them of strength.

For example, if someone puts me in a headlock, i'll bridge my arms and push away. I would imagine it's discomforting- but i do it for the sake of pushing there head, not discomforting there face.

I was training with a bigger stronger guy who kept cross-facing me with no legit submission in mind.

This was only in grappling though, and a couple months later when he started sparring MMA, first time, I punched him across the ring into a corner until he verbally submitted and started whining that I was going too hard and fast. I smiled and said no problem, and in the pouty scowl he threw back at me, I knew that he knew, he was the bitch.

Douchebaggery begets douchebaggery.

Relying on power over technique=Pain for fucktards.

Since ICY brought it back from the grave . . .

I voted that I don't crossface, but that is just a general rule of thumb. In a tourney, I'd have no problem doing it.

Defensively: To keep him from jamming his shoulder into my face from top of side mount, or to keep him from coming around to single leg me off of a failed double leg.

Cross-facing is kind of a gray-area technique where I train. Sure you can do it to people. You can get away with pain techniques to transition to submissions. But they are looked on a little more like "bitch" techniques, and if people tend to do them a lot at the expense of developing better technique, eventually they'll start getting it back like people slapping on armbars harder and faster. The pain transition stuff is taught, though, just differentiated from what you'd typically want to do in rolling with people in-house. I guess the idea is to be able to train it, but still keep from injury to your partners.

Cross-throat is completely legit at my school as a submission and to force someone to move to set them up for something. Cross face... Little bit more gray, it's not taught as a sub or technique but if someone chins-in and leaves your cross-throat or sub on their face it seems to be their responsibility to protect their own damn face.

Crossfacing can happen pretty easily and you can train it and train for it without sending people to the hospital. Sounds legit to me.

Across the throat is a submission...****, even a proper crossface neck crank is a submission.

Bone-sawing is not a fucking submission.


Since ICY brought it back from the grave

No, Fictionpimp did.

Hey I get bored.

I just vagina out of the whole debate by using my forearm on the bridge of their nose, forehead, or chin instead, so i'm sure i'm legitimately moving the head instead of getting it from pain. Also, LOL CROSSFACE PRESSURE POINT GRAPPLING, just to get it out of the way.

what i have gathered from reading this thread is that i wouldnt roll with raynor

"superficial" and "easily healed" stuff may be ok for your ego and feeling tough. i prefer to go home (and to work the next day) looking the same as when i came. my ego doesnt enter into it.

if you start doing a bitch move like that, i'll tap every single time, you learn nothing and i learn that your a **** training partner

competition is different story though, if its inside the rules and you believe it can give you any sort of advantage, do it.

No, Fictionpimp did.My bad. Functional alcoholism isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Weed is better for you.