I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

I can see your point about turning the guys head to make him roll away, but I can do that by other means. I personally don't find pain a good way to make people do things I want, because some people have a high pain tolerance and will just tough it out. I'd prefer to shut him down on one side and encourage him to think that it's his *choice* to roll away since he'll be less on his guard than if he feels like he's forced to do it.

I wish.


http://www.jiujitsugear.com/forum/index.php?topic=38168.msg515053#msg515053


LOL. Dumbass.

In understand the application of a cross face to counter a takedown and the examples I gave in my first post and have no problems with those. However, if the only reason is to stop the person turning towards you then I can think of better ways to do it than grinding my forearm or elbow in his face, as I explained in my recent post. I can see that it would be applicable in an MMA fight where I don't care about my opponent's wellbeing, but in an everyday training scenario I can't see the advantages of it over other methods.


fucking ***** :angry5:

Thanks troll, that means a lot coming from you.

Hey waki? Maybe you could try contributing something besides insults? I mean, do you even TRAIN anymore?

Hey waki? Maybe you could try contributing something besides insults? I mean, do you even TRAIN anymore?


Why yes, thank you for asking something utterly irrelevant to the issue.

The basic point that I'm hearing from you tough guys is that "its too rough! can't you do something else that's not so mean?" "I don't want any bruises" and other assorted bullshit. What the ****? If you don't want contact go play ping pong or something. Would you take up boxing and then cry because people are punching you too hard?

I've already stated that those sorts of techniques aren't going to get a reaction from someone used to it. So all you are doing is hurting your training partner needlessly. I've also explained that there are better ways to achieve the same goal i.e. prevent opponent turning towards you, or force him to roll away.

It's not about being a tough guy who can stand having his face smashed. It doesn't make anyone tougher, it just breeds resentment and injury in the club. It also doesn't make anyone more technical - in fact those methods are usually restricted to meat-heads who will never progress beyond their current level.

I'll repeat it again for you - there are better, more technical ways to achieve the same goal.

I've got no problems with turning someone's head with the palm or forearm. But I do have a problem with forearm smashes and grinding. I guess it's a matter of degrees. When the intent is to just hurt your opponent by grinding, then I can't see the point of doing it. For example, a guy I train with occasionally will not have a problem bearing down on your face with his forearm while trying to choke you if you bury your chin on your chest. He doesn’t really care if you knee-ride his face in return, but he doesn’t have people lining up to grapple him, and I can’t see him ever getting any better because of the way he trains.

As far as resentment, a great example was Pe De Pano facelocking his purple belt opponent last year to win the $1000 in a sub-wrestling competition. Thanks to that incident and others of a similar nature, he's now probably the least popular BJJ'er in the world.

Why yes, thank you for asking something utterly irrelevant to the issue.

The basic point that I'm hearing from you tough guys is that "its too rough! can't you do something else that's not so mean?" "I don't want any bruises" and other assorted bullshit. What the ****? If you don't want contact go play ping pong or something. Would you take up boxing and then cry because people are punching you too hard?

I do BJJ because it's fun, not because I want to show everyone how long my pubic hair is. Why do you wrestle?

I've already stated that those sorts of techniques aren't going to get a reaction from someone used to it. So all you are doing is hurting your training partner needlessly. I've also explained that there are better ways to achieve the same goal It's not about being a tough guy who can stand having his face smashed. It doesn't make anyone tougher, it just breeds resentment and injury in the club. It also doesn't make anyone more technical - in fact those methods are usually restricted to meat-heads who will never progress beyond their current level.

I'll repeat it again for you - there are better, more technical ways to achieve the same goal.

No, let me repeat it for you: You don't know what you are talking about and you are a *****.

I do BJJ because it's fun, not because I want to show everyone how long my pubic hair is. Why do you wrestle?


I think you wandered into a yoga class and no one has had the heart to tell you the truth!

I just love the idea that a Blad3-level folkstyle wrestler is lecturing a BJJ black belt because he doesn't torture his students.

Waki is right though. Its a legit, effective technique. If you're using it for sadism, thats one thing, but if you need to turn the head, the crossface is fundamental. Maybe not in BJJ, but it is in wrestling. They teach it because it works.


Why is this so hard to understand?

I just love the idea that a Blad3-level folkstyle wrestler is lecturing a BJJ black belt because he doesn't torture his students.


I'm super-impressed, really.



The fact that you consider something so basic to be "torture" really raises questions...

I crossface bloody anything that comes in my way. Its annoying and in the long run it may make my opponent loose focus.

Bare in mind that I do not apply full force in training, only 'friendly' cross faces to make my mates get accustomed to it. Because sooner or later someone will crossface them with full force.

I do it when I can, but not as hard as I can. I also grind ribs with my fists and pinch.