I know, I did WC for over 3 years. We did drills where someone would try and hammer your centreline with clasped hands into a hammer fist. You had to redirect their force and keep your structure with the tan, bong, and fok sau. Still this is moot in fighting. The particular structure plays very little role in being a successful fighter. I'm never going to throw a bong sau up as a defense.

If someone is alot heavier and stronger than you, They can collapse your structure. It's not failsafe. It does work well in using structure to fend off a strong opponent and strong attacks. In order to "absorb" the strikes, the lower body must be in a static tense horse. This horse is great for close striking, trapping and the like, but not for all around fighting.

*flexes wing chun debating muscles*


I used to accept this as an explanation. But what does it actually mean? Why does not tensing the muscles create a heavier feeling in the elbow?

i can only show you.


Difficult isn't it? That's why it can't be given as an explanation, because it explains nothing. How does weight move to your wrist? How do you fill up your arms with your body weight? Is this really what it is all about? Do you think your opinion will change in 5 years time and you'll look at this and say 'what the hell was I on about?!?"

how does weight move to the wrist? i don't know... come to the next bbq.


How do you define a connection to the ground? Why does weight in the arm connect you to the ground?

i gave an example...

Can you do this on someone heavier than you? And can it be applied under pressure?

i can do it to people heavier. I haven't done it in a fight, but my friends have, people you know.



Be very careful of pushing. Pushing and having good structure are complete opposites...

Also, muscles are used. You know that right? Come on, we are trying to give wing chun credibility here!!

I know not to push... i used the pushing as an example.

How do we absorb if we roll everything off? What about the rest of the body, isn't that need to be relaxed too?

you do both simultaneously.



Would you say you have achieved it?

only a little. its amazing how much that little can do when other people can't do it. I'm only talking about other wing chun people here.... their chi sau falls to pieces, and so does their balance.


come to the next bbq. If someone could explain wing chun to me, then it would be easy to do, eh? you know as well as i that its about feeling what is right and wrong.

Once i tried to read all the articles on the internet about wing chun.. they didn't help in my training. Maybe i should start the new writing wing chun style.
The person that can make the biggest post wins.

If someone is alot heavier and stronger than you, They can collapse your structure. It's not failsafe. It does work well in using structure to fend off a strong opponent and strong attacks. In order to "absorb" the strikes, the lower body must be in a static tense horse. This horse is great for close striking, trapping and the like, but not for all around fighting.


well, i'm saying that they shouldn't be able to. yeah?


and you don't throw out a bong sau,..... what kind of **** is that?

you try to hit the person attacking you.... if hes trying to hit you, you meet his strike at the angle of attack.... because your structure is relaxed, but firm, a bong sau occurs, and it either redirects the force, or it strieks though a gap.

why do you practice bong sau if you are never going ot use one?

supercrap..... it doesn't have to mean anything... you just need to be able to DO it.

I don't use it, hence I don't practice it. You can throw out a bong sau and redirect an incoming strike. The structure is only used a very basic ideal of WC. Have you fought other styles with WC? WC is good, however it's not complete, and not perfect. It has to be adapted and applied with other forms of Martial Art to make a person a competent fighter. If I have to say this again, Im going to scream. You don't use your shoulder or arms to strike? I do. I add all of it, I guarantee I hit harder than someone who just uses WC structure.

I guarantee I hit harder than someone who just uses WC structure.

thats a pretty big call

I hope you guys can fight better than you theorize.

"Thanks dude... But I have been shown it many many times by people training for 20 years under Sigung... I have felt it. I just think they are the exceptions, the few people who can actually do it..."

i didn't see this bit... i don't know why you wanted me to explain then... it does nothing to help your understanding.

To help yours. And because I don't understand it.

MA success= diversification of tactics, strikes and styles, nutrition and weight lifting. None of this over analytical structural bullshit. Fight some other styles of martial art and then come back and discuss. A person who solely depends on WC for fighting is doomed to failure.

To help yours. And because I don't understand it.

my understand isn't helped much by people telling me what to do on the internet. Its helped by feeling what is right and wrong, and then working it out from there. you can't explain something like that and expect people to do it, or even understand it. I will freely admit that i don't understand it completely.

oh.... something else it gives you is even force across your forearm. so whereever pressure is applied, it is exactly the same at every point of the arm. make of that what you will.

1. Ok, but you don't have that much experience do you? You definately know **** all about wing chun. :)

2. Well, where was your own circular footwork? If a guy changes angles to out-position you, you flow with him, or do SOMETHING, not just stand there. There's something in wing chun called chi sao that teaches this kind of movement.

3. I'll read your thread. But think about this. A roundkick works because it hits you at a certain point. If you are too far away, the guy's kick misses. If you move forward and change the distance between ya'll, then most of the force of the kick will be lost. Seeing as how the other guy is kicking you, 90% of the time he won't be able to move to adapt to your movement. He's got one leg up in the air, right? What does 'having a chance' to kick mean exactly? And most martial artists are not intelligent, as the internet proves conclusively. :)

Hope my rant helps explain what I posted earlier, I'm not trying to be offensive :)

1. **** you. :sex:

But seriously, I did WC for two years. It is true that we didn´t spar, but I got a very good idea on how the system works or is supposed to work. So I believe I am entitled to an opinion on the subject. I certainly know how things are supposed to work, I have tried them out in sparring matches against people who had no idea about WC, and many parts of the system failed miserably in the "let´s rock" test.

2. Excuse me, you were telling me to punch forward against a hook or round punch. I said a punch forward doesn´t work against those punches, because I tried. Punching forward works against jabs, straight punches and crosses - linear, centerline punches. It doesn´t work against hooks, because your fist will not meet the guy´s fist, and you will get creamed. You are changing the subject, we weren´t discussing footwork.

3. Sorry, but that was an incredibly ignorant statement. And that was also what my sifu used to say about thai roundkicks; only people who have no experience with MT at all would say that. Yes, the kicker will indeed be able to adapt a little - he can kick you with any part of his chin - but, more importantly, a decent striker knows how to use timing in his favour, whether for kicking or punching. And that is why defences such as blocks and parries were developed, because against a skilled fighter you cannot count on having the time to retreat or advance in order to avoid a blow.

Hi WCL

the way WT guys deal with the hook is to punch forward using a step that follows the opponents nose(if you dont use nose to nose you get hit) i.e the step moves your body (offlining) in a way that your nose is following opponents nose)
The same idea is used against roundhouse kicks

Daninja, in my opinion that technique counts too much on the possibility that you will have time to step forward. Not to mention a hook is a close distance punch, it´s hard to throw a forward punch in those circunstances (an uppercut yes, something more linear no). And this technique doesn´t seem to take into account the fact that the person throwing the hook will probably still hit you.

you can use a shift to get the nose-to nose idea also one hand is doing a tan sao/fook sao aginst the punch and the other arm is punching

i think i have also seen a movement from wooden dummy where you step back at an angle(move your body/head out of range) with some hand movement and then come back into range with an attack