No worries, I didn't take it that way. Don't worry about offending me. It's impossible unless someone's really really stupid.

Well, your partially right on the weight training. However, weight training does the same as BWE, it depends on your particular program. You can lift for endurance. Pushups and Benchpresses if you think about it's the same exercise. Now I can do pushups until my arms give out, which isn't necessarily going to build up my muscular endurance if I do them until I puke. (overtraining=bad.) The same goes for the benchpress. The benchpress will make the supporting muscles stronger and add to the endurance of muscle groups associated with the exercise. Now If I'm stronger than my bodyweight, it would behove me to use a higher weight for my endurance exercises. That way I can do 8 sets of 20, or whatever I'm doing, than having to do 15 sets of 20 at my own body weight. It's efficiency. Also stablizers are worked by the using a freeweight, versus doing a pushup in which the ground doesn't move. (Exercise ball can help this a bit.) You can get endurance both ways, One's just easier and can add to your strength. The bit about peak strength not lasting as long as BWE endurance doesn't make any sense. If you stop lifting or exercising in either aspect, your strength and endurance will diminish. Make sense?

What do you mean big three, Shuma? I'm guessing Squat, Bench and DL? You can do Rows, etc to work your latissimus. DL also does work your entire back. Grip strength can be worked on independently with weights and should. I can walk on my hands easily, but I'd rather be able to hit harder and support more weight so I work on that grip strength from forearm and wrist exercises.

I think the other idea of BWE training (at least this guy's flavor of them) is that you can circuit train easier. I like them too, because when I torture our karate club by actually making them sweat (oh noes!) it's easier to keep them all moving in a group BWE session than sending them all to the weight room.

But yeah, I see what you're saying. I've been meaning to start actually lifting weights again (for reasons other than MA, I currently look like this http://tinypic.com/15ewi9 ), I just haven't been able to get around to it lately.

EDIT: BTW, only the skinny arms are a byproduct of only doing pushups and stuff, the goofy hair and confused expression are from sleep deprivation.

Well, I never knew deadlifts did the upper back to a noticeable degree. I always feel it far more in my quads, forearms and lower back. The pullup is also a very important range of motion if you have to, say, pull yourself over an obstacle or scale a wall.

BWE's are definitely easier to facilitate among a large group rather than weight training. I hate doing any sort of power training in MA. I believe people should do it on their own. I don't pay money to do pushups. When you start lifting, make sure to keep track of your diet too, so you can make progress quicker, and promote faster recovery. No need to make excuses about skinniness. About 9 months ago I was 128lbs. After that amount of time of busting my ass in the Gym, I'm 165. I still want to hit 180 though. I wasn't able to bench 45 plates and now I'm doing 200 without consequence. Gotta start somewhere.

Shuma- DL's work your entire back, legs, and and forearms and triceps depending on the movement. My back day consists of High Rows, DL's and Pulldowns. I never do pullups, but about two weeks ago someone said I couldn't swing myself over the rack and I was easily able to pull myslef up and over it.

Huh. Well, I'm going to keep doing them since my school gym only has a deadlift MACHINE and I would have to turn the squat rack into a deadlift rack, which takes entirely too much effort. I don't even bother with deadlifts but instead try to combine exercises to get everything I give up by not doing them.

Next year when I'm commuting the gym near my house should still have their deadlift platform.

I like the Trap bar that you stand in to rather than the flatbar Romanian deadlifts. DL machines aren't bad. The movement isn't that much different. You're going to be stabilizing with your legs rather than your lower back with that motion and the stabilizers can be worked with squats. I don't really see a difference to be honest between the HS DL machine and Trap Bar DL's. I won't do flatbar deadlifts. I can't get a good enough crouch with the bar in front of me. It also has the tendency to slide up my legs when I DL with a flatbar. They overall just suck to me and should only be done for stiff legged deadlifts which is another lift I just won't do.

To just go back to the pushups question, I thought doing them on the knuckles would negate the strain on the wrist, since the entire thing has zero eccentricity that way.

Akira, were you saying knuckle pushups were bad?

Izzy - are you aware you have the same haircut as your avatar? ;O_o

Ya, I said they're bad due to the pressure upon the bones in your hand. Now, I'm one for toughness and making your self into a killing machine, (Just look at my dentistry pictures) but doing knuckle pushups can crack off parts of the bones in your hand, give you stress fractures, etc. The strain in the wrists from pushups comes from weak tendons. Those have to be strengthened. (I had that problem myself with my left wrist.) Striking a heavy bag and lifting would be the best ways to strengthen the tendons, bones and muscles in the area. You can build up deposits on your skeletal structure through activites such as hitting a heavy bag or punching rocks, but the former is safer and more productive than the latter. I used to do these things called "shockups." I would do pushups on my knuckles, launch myself off of the ground and landed in a locked out position. I did this on concrete, or the rocks I have outside of my apt complex. Hardcore, yes, necessary, no. As a result I have scarred hands which is cool, however, it didn't make me hit any harder or create massive columns of my arms able to punch holes through plate mail.

In essence, You can punch rocks and all that fun stuff with a chance at injury, or get stronger and harder by doing it smartly without injury and the results will be alot quicker.

But surely pushups without the bounce had a lesser impact than striking a heavy bag? I would have thought the heavy bag would cause more stress on the knuckles than pushups?

The bag tends to give a little, versus the constant pushing of concrete. I suppose it would be fine on a mat though. I hadn't considered doing it on those. When I did it, I just prefered to hurt myself :-P

I really hate to respond to this thread because Hannibal should be training with actual weights rather than something Suzanne Sommers might have lodged between her legs but here goes...

Those bars (when used as an adjunct to pushups) would offer one benefit which would be a greater range of motion (like the stretch one gets at the bottom of dumbbell bench press or flys).

Now go pump some iron, *****.

This thread makes me cry.

The only benefit is an increased range of motion. If you insist on this, then buy a pair of 10-20 lb dumbells instead and incorporate lateral raises, kickbacks, and rows into the push-up movement.

This thread makes me cry.

Which part specifically?