Techniques commonly used by police officers to restrain and transport people.

I'm going to state the obvious here but, the hardest part in joint lock is training to use them effectively.

As every other technique you need to get to a level where you can use them in hard sparing, but for that both partners need to be at a good level, one to apply it and the other to 'know' when the lock is well executed and resisting more will break the joint.

I'm far from there yet but I've seen my teacher and higher student spar full contact and use them.

Thanks, Asia. That quote pretty much sums up my own feelings on standing joint-locks. So far, the greatest value I've gotten out of training them is learning to adjust to different movements, etc. in the process of slapping them on. Holding, however, against a resisting opponent with any sort of skill, is largely beyond my ken. All this has caused me to be more curious about the type of people that do just that--going for immediate damage.

Ronin, what locks did you tend to use in your bouncing days?

I was actually thinking of the guy who came in and challenged your class that time when I was training the other night. I remembered that you had chosen something that worked as a "dislocator," but not as a submission move.

Techniques commonly used by police officers to restrain and transport people.
Ah, yes techniques you can rely on when you outnumber the other guy three to one and have battons and mace but unfortunately you're also on CCTV.

my .02, in addition to what has been said, is that standing joint locks are generally applicable AFTER you have a) position, and b) disbalancement.

Essentially, they are to *secure* control, not take it.

I have a feeling I'm going to get Asia and ronin pimp-slapping me for this...

Think about the original intent of JJJ techniques. It originated mainly for breaks. Techniques that would quickly neutralize a larger, better armed, better armored opponent and render them unable to continue the fight. (Whether this was on the battlefield or in close quarters combat). The locks came up more from the policing side of the Japanese culture, and I think you'll find if you do a bit of research there's information referencing weapons such as variations on the Sai, which apparently were favored by law enforcement. ("Secrets of the Samurai" - Ratti and Westbrook is one such reference. Very little about the Samurai per se and very much about Japanese martial culture in general)

Spunky makes an excellent point as well...most of the come-alongs I learned were to secure an opponent and control their balance and strength. I had to get them there first.

^ yes I agree, I thought unbalancing was a gimme, guess it's not

specifically with the case of Aikido, CT, I agree with the breaking conclusion. Most of the throws/locks I've learned in Aikido could be done in a way that would break a limb or cause death if they would be done in a certain way, also the techniques themselves have weapons in mind -- but I guess in my case we learn to do them the "nice" way so we don't kill our opponent

In the case of aikido, though, TNK, isn't wounding or killing your opponent inconsistent with the overriding philosophy?

yes, which gives it that complicated dichotomy of a library of techniques that were originally meant for sword-wielding death dealers while at the same time having a philosophy of love your enemy and make the world a better place.

still don't totally understand it myself, but for the sake of technique, there are usually more than one way of performing a technique -- the nice way and the mean way

I think you'll find if you do a bit of research there's information referencing weapons such as variations on the Sai, which apparently were favored by law enforcement.
It is called a jutte or jitte (meaning 10 hands)
http://www.geocities.com/remipulwer/Budo/Jutte/jutte01.jpg

I've heard of and seen that thing before but I have no idea how it is used.

We have jutte-jutsu from Kukishinden ryu and Takagi Yoshin ryu. I haven't played with it much myself yet, but I know there is some fun stuff there for it. The hook is used to trap blades, fingers, even clothing like a gi lapel, the tips/corners can be used to attack weak points, and it can be used to choke or as a lever in large joint locks and pins. Things like small joint manipulation and kyusho strikes which are usually rather iffy endeavors make more sense when you are performing them with a tool like this.

I thought you died hannibal.

There's a Buddhist parable about a blind guy who's over at a friend's house--playing X-box or some **** like that--and who decides to head home late at night. His friend gives him a lantern to take with him, explaining that, "Hey, you might not need to light up the path, but this will help other people to see you." So the guy takes up the lantern and trails off into the night. A short time later, he's bumped off of the road by another guy. "You idiot," he yells, "didn't you see the light?" "Uh dude," the guy replies, "The light is out."

Hannibal, I posted this on a thread about the most tedious poster here on Bullshido. Would you like to wager a guess as to who I was talking about there?