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bjj
2/14/2003 9:30am,
i don't know but jeff just seems to be asking some non threating questions and all he gets back is bashing. if you're going to bash him just call him direct or stop down and see him he's not hiding. if you have questions for him please ask him i'm sure he'll answer them. he did state that he would answer any questions asked. lets keep this profesional just questions no bashing or name calling.

me
2/14/2003 9:32am,
Fuh-Q writes--------

""You are a joke! I actually wish you were still around, because I would have loved to pair up with you. Someone like you would never even last 20 seconds on the street.""

Jeffy responds-------

""Fuh-q, why so angry? This saturday @ 2pm
I will be training at my school""

and adds--

""If you want to show up feel free to""

Looks like the ball is in Q's court if he has any.
Maybe somebody can video tape it. 2 CDT trained titans battling it out

MS

bjj
2/14/2003 9:41am,
he is some food for thought.
lets say you take a collage course that you pay good money for. you take the course because of the instructor and who he says he is and what he claims to have done in his field. during the course you decide to do some research on him and find some contradictions in his background so you approach him on it. in return he goes on to bash you and call you childish names. from there he states well it's top secret and i can't tell you anyway.

after this don't you think the public has a right to know the truth about this instructor and who is really is? it's called fraud and lying. and correct me if I'm wrong but that's illegal in this country.

Your All Tools
2/14/2003 10:44am,
OK I would like to get involved here as well.

First things first.

Questions for Jeff:

1. Is CDT a good system?
2. Do you still teach CDT or use any of their techniques ?
3. Are you affiliated in any way with Tom Patire & if not why?
4. If no to the above did your departure affect CDT's business or are you trying to ?
5. Is Tom skilled or is he not skilled? How would you rate his ability and how would you rate yours? Who is the better and more talented martial artist?
6. Please educate me on why you still have CDT & Tom Patire paraphernalia on the walls of your school and web site if you even question it's validity. That makes no sense and also makes you a hypocrite.

Questions for Fuh-Q:

1. Are you going to show on Saturday at this school?
2. If yes to the above please provide the address, because I am from NY and would like to attend.
3. Have you ever met Jeff? & if so were you guys friends at some point?

Questions for me:

1. You claim to not mask your identity, you sign your posts Mike S, and yet their is no indication of how to contact you. Your email is not valid.
2. What is your relationship with Patire, and have you ever trained with him?
3. If yes to the above, why the falling out?

Questions for Tom Patire or CDT Staff:

1. Why don't you answer the above questions? Don't you care?
2. Are you the mastermind behind this publicity stunt? I think there is a lot of validity behind the facts that The Truth presented.

Questions for bjj:

It is obvious that you and Eisenberg are the same. I agree with F-Q on this one, so stop posting on multiple handles. Your atrocious grammar and spelling skills or lack there of match Eisenbergs. So you are not fooling anyone, and by the way your posts coincide with each others and you also answer questions that are directed at Jeff E. So I have no questions for you, just refer to Jeff's because you are the same person.

On a closing note, this is a question for all of the above just for some fun, there is a lot of bashing on this site, and we have a very active thread going here. Please list who you think are the top 3 martial artists in your opinion.

Please answer with maturity. Don't get me involved in the politics, I am just approaching this topic from a neutral 3rd party approach.

Y. A. Tools

me
2/14/2003 2:38pm,
Your All Tools asks------------
""1.You claim to not mask your identity, you sign your posts Mike S, and yet their is no indication of how to contact you. Your email is not valid.
2.What is your relationship with Patire, and have you ever trained with him?
3.If yes to the above, why the falling out?""


I do sign my posts and as I said earlier I really do not care that much if people want to think I am someone else. But I did find it kind of funny in a forum that people prize their anonymity that every time I have stated a strong opinion either for or against someone instead of arguing the facts behind my statement the comeback is to say I am someone else when in reality I am actually one of the FEW people here to sign any name. I value a thought provoking debate and find it amusing when people instead of arming themselves with logic choose to hid behind an argument like I donít have to answer that because your not really you. By the way I would prefer not to be contacted but a number of people have e-mailed me and I have responded to some It is a working address I use every day. judofighterms@hotmail.com.
I have no relationship with Patire, never have never will. I met him at a seminar and a friend trained with him and I went to his school in NJ once years ago.

MS




Edited by - me on February 14 2003 13:40:25

jeffeisenberg
2/14/2003 3:24pm,
To answer tools questions;

*cdt is good for what it was originally meant for, which was the law enforcement or security proffessional. When I first got involved there was just one course, now there are a dozen
and I think it is trying to sell to the wrong market. I do not agree with telling an average joe or his wife that they can control a street thug, or have to because of legal issues.

No, I do not teach cdt . The martial art techniques that are used in cdt also are found in jujitsu,aikido, and hapkido. Some I knew prior to tom, and some came from tom. In fact, in his european documentary, I can be seen reacting to a knife attack with a figure 4
hammer lock and tom is heard commenting how what I did was "not his stuff"

I am not affiliated with tom in any way. If you read all my posts you will find why not, but in a nutshell, he had a falling out with a good friend of mine, and showed his true colors by
lashing out with lies about him. Then he had one of his guys bad mouth the hell out of me at a meeting I wasn't even at. This all because I chose to back my friend instead of being blindly loyal and siding with tom. Tom will say he chose not to renew my cert, (not that I would have), but It really came down to the
ethics side of it all for me. I respect him as a martial artist, not as a person.

PizDoff
2/14/2003 3:29pm,
lol at the pissed off people





--

There are only three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.

jeffeisenberg
2/14/2003 3:41pm,
Tools cont;
After all that went down, and I got out and saw things a bit clearer, so questions I had seemed more pertinent due to tom showing me another side of himself. While you might not believe it, I did not start the on line questions, but as it went on I got involved a bit,
but got really involved when this guy "x-student" posted, and only get involved when my name is mentioned. Why do I want the answers? Simply because I want to know, but by not answering me, he is giving me the answers. I am really amazed at how a few simple questions have caused so much anger. If his ridiculous defenders weren't attacking me, I would be done with it.

Anything I have earned is on my wall. I paid & went through the training and am proud of that. If I had some of the answers, I would know if they are worth more than just a personal accomplishment.

Tart-Do
2/14/2003 8:43pm,
Eisy, Toolie & MEME & FQ,

We all worked out today and asked my instructor to read this. After laughing he said that "all these things are semi-truths."

Here's his breeze:
Mr. Eisenberg has resentment maybe rightfully so but why waste energy with this when he should build his business. As a school owner think about being better than the other guy not trying to destroy him. In all fairness it will never happen to you or your adversary. I have seen you website and the way it's laid out it shows class, don't lose it over an arguement among former friends.

Mr. Patire in my estimation will not get involved. I met him. He is a capable and very intense person and confident. Right now in the market he is the hottest thing and I doubt any of these things will effect him.

Mr. ME opened up a can of worms that he should of kept closed. Should ME ever really be discover then he in my estimation will become the hated fall guy. I live by an old adage "Don't start something you can't finsh." Their is no end to this bickering and I am sure the real ME will be discover if this continues.

MR. TRUTH knows more about everyone so maybe he has the answers if any exist. He should set the record straight but with the TRUTH, not a version of it since he knows all of you people.

Mr. Tools has the most sense and must realize he will only get partial answers. He would need to figure out the relaity from the fiction.

Personally who cares about what is being said. I am sure that many like me have a family and at the end of the day we enjoy them and not waste time on a computer.

Mr. BJJ shows childish imaturity and I do believe he is one in the same and in all fairness he shows he is a friend of Mr. Eisenberg, which is a respectful thing. He is causing Mr. Eisenberg more harm then good.

Mr. FQ if you do where a badge and work in the
line of fire then keep your head. Talk with Mr. Patire because I am sure he would not want you to disrespect your code or his teachings. You are a good student for standing up for him but I am sure he has his own solution. Don't get yourself in trouble.

The Site started with good intentions and now is being abused. The SITE gets laughed at when it should get admired like MMA. I know I go to the events.

As seen in other POSTS Mr. Eisenberg and Mr. Patire have a history, first good now bad. Should it mean something to them they willmeet as mature Ranks and talk, should it not they will go about their business or end-up in court.

Either way with the threats in country we need to united not fight. Martial arts gets badmouthed from the outisde world because we in the inside world hate ourselves - as seen in this thread.

Hopefully my words have some meaning but this is the last time my class is occupied by classless words. It's time for all of us to step forward to humility.

Success to all that strive for it!

Dudes,

Now you know why he is the Master Dude.

Peace!

bjj
2/15/2003 7:29am,
Once again another diversion from answering the questions. If we all ignored the way CEO's and business people do business today, companies like Enron would still be doing what they are now in trouble for.
CDT is a business selling a productin a public forum. THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT THEIR BUYING AND WHO THEIR BUYING FROM.

Once again here are the questions:

1)Name the instructors that are world wide that you preside over as grandmaster of hom do?
2)On realfighting.com, you say you trained in homdo 3-4 times a week as a teenager-where?
with who?
3)When exactly did you train in the phillipenes?
4)What exactly is the federal clearence that you have?
5)What is your federal govt involvement that
you claim?
6)what govt agency is it you refer to that has approved cdt?
7) what court cases has cdt been inolved in?
you claim it has never lost, but has it ever won? Ever even been used as a defense?
Named in an action?
8)what law enforcement agencies or deptartments are you contracted to to train the whole agency?
9)Was the a&e tv special about itg the first course ever run?
10)How is it that one can trademark physical actions done prior to cdt's formulation. Actions found in many if not all martial arts?
11)Financial claims were made about instructors cdt sales, will you substantiate them?
12)The 600 cdt training centers, are they owned by you, or simply people authorized to teach a course?
13) Can these centers be contacted on their
success with offering the course?

jeffeisenberg
2/15/2003 7:41am,
I was very happy to see tart-do's post. I have trying to be done with this, but keep jumped back in, and keep jumping when I see my name attacked. I was and am amazed at what a few questions on a proffessional level have caused on a personal level. I am done with this! No answer IS thhe answer! In closing I
have e-mailed tools & fuh-q my school phone # as well as tool my school address inviting both to call or train. Anyone else can e-mail me through this site,(as mine is a real address), and I would be happy to talk, explain
or train. So say what you will on the web about me, I will just take it as anger over the button of truth being pushed,
both fuh-q & tools h

bjj
2/16/2003 1:56pm,
Hey Jeff today is Sunday, I was wondering if fuh-q or anyone else who name bashes on this topic took you up on your offer and showed up at your school yesterday. If I had to guess I'd say no.
ohh well I guess if tom can't give true answers to the simple questions asked he has no choice but to name bash and not back up what he says.
WOW and people are really falling for his hype.

The Wastrel
2/16/2003 2:24pm,
I think you guys are stinking up the forum, and I'm glad to see some of you think it's time to stop.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Fuh-Q
2/16/2003 7:07pm,
First thing is first I will answer my questions.

Questions for Fuh-Q:

1. Are you going to show on Saturday at this school?
2. If yes to the above please provide the address, because I am from NY and would like to attend.
3. Have you ever met Jeff? & if so were you guys friends at some point?

------------------------------
1. No I was working & even if I wasn't I already said I would not go, because there would be nothing positive to come out of it.

3. Yes I have met Jeff on several occasions. We were acquaintances, not friends. Ironically Jeff helped me refine a CDT technique that I was having trouble learning at the time.
------------------------------------------------
In reference to Tartdo:

I do wear a badge and I wear it proudly. I am only getting involved because of the nonsense that Eisenberg is carrying on with. As long as he & his alter ego (BJJ) continue so will I.
------------------------------------------------

As far as you Jeff, it is very clever to post under your name and state that you are done with the topic, but then very immature for you to immediately post under bjj and continue. Either you stop under both names or I will continue and it will only get worse. I can type just as long as you can.

If bjj is not you, you at least know who he is. So then tell him "enough is enough"

The ball is in your court.

Officer Fuh-Q

bjj
2/17/2003 4:13pm,
lol lol I'm not Jeff and i don't know Jeff. you talk a lot fuh-Q. Jeff was stand up in inviting you to call him or visit his school and is seems you have declined. yet you continue to bash and name call on this forum. why? all than was ever asked by Jeff, myself and others were simple questions about tom patires background. non threating questions i might add. and all that was ever said in return were slanderous and name bashing remarks. your a police officer and I'm sure you have a high standard of morels. if tom is the standup guy he says, then why all the bashing and no answers? he is selling a product to the public and the public has a right to know what their buying and who their buying from. and yes this should be done in a public forum. Not one on one where Tom can cover his tracks with more outlandous stories. hom do lol lol lol that's a joke. With all due respect to you, don't you think people have a right to know? You're a police officier, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this fraud?

Fuh-Q
2/19/2003 12:22am,
I can't believe that you are still insisting that you are not also bjj. I just went back and read every bjj post in this thread. In each and every one bjj comes to Jeff's defense. In some humorous posts bjj even answers the questions directed at Jeff. Hey what coincidence. They also even spell the same words wrong.

On an even stranger note bjj has never posted on any subject other than one related to this matter.

Quit the charade Jeff/bjj your cover is totally exposed.

Yes, I am a police officer and I do have morals, but to me this is a hobby, I find humor in the fact that you can't get answers from Tom. You are so angry that your plight for answers is going ignored. Hey, you may never even find out. What a mysterious riddle.

When you say homdo is a joke I am assuming you mean the history, because you yourself said that Tom is a good martial artist.

Actually this is not a case of fraud. There is no proof to any of your claims, it is kinda like a he said/she said, with you obviously being the she.

If you produce facts then maybe you have a fraud case, if you don't produce, I guess Tom was telling the truth all along.

I see on your website that you do investigations, well, Sherlock here is your big case. Hell you may even be able to install a nanny cam to garner your secret evidence.

Have fun Detective.

Oh & before I forget......Fuh-Q!