Also, if tom will answer you in person, whats to stop him answering in the public forum that he makes all his claims in? I would think he would not want people to think he's avoiding them. I would think he would take pleasure in shutting all this down with the proof? The only response you will get is him bad mouthing me.
Have I completely lost my mind or do Patire’s defenders actually use the argument that even they don’t believe Tom’s background but how dare we ask questions because the training is good?
You may not care if his background is a LIE, but other people have a right care.
If people feel the training is good but the man behind it is a lying fraud and they don’t care, it is their right to continue the training good for them.
Many others and I seem to feel CDT is crap and are unwilling to sit and accept Patire’s
I am in no way saying that I do not believe in Tom's background. What I did say is that I did not believe the "History" of Hom Do. That means that I think it came from somewhere else, like the true origin where Tom learned it from. I think Tom used that other story to cover the truth of where he learned it. You have seen Tom in action & I am sure that you can agree he is on another level.
There is a difference between a lying fraud and someone who chooses to tell a different story of where they learned an art.
The questions that I said I would like Tom to answer are based on the true history of the art. I am intrigued by it and would like to learn more.
Now let's address "me" - you were already exposed as being 3 different people. Now do you really want everyone to believe that you are not either Eisenberg under a fourth handle, Malandra, or Dunlap? You miraculously appear whenever Jeff posts a comment.
Personally I think you are all a bunch of pantywaists & if you had any balls you clowns would go see Tom direct and tell him to his face. Jeff you claim that you did, but that was "before you talked all of this ****" & get real - you also said Rich F. badmouthed you, etc... I have worked out with Rich a couple of times over the years, and you and your little hop along crew of Martial freaks could never even shine his shoes!
So go ahead me, eisenberg and whoever else - now that you are unwilling to sit still, CDT better watch out.
Your all a bunch of jokes. Now that you have got me going, I am going to do a little homework on all of you. I am sure you all have skeletons in your closets.
Now we can have a little fun.
Now let's address "me" - you were already exposed as being 3 different people.
I posted on this site long before any of the people you claim I have been exposed as ever did.
My posting here was carry over of an exchange on another forum with Patire himself. From day 1 unlike many here I signed my name to my posts.
I know Dunlap but not any of the others. I could really give a flying **** who you and Patire want to think I am. Have you ever thought that his "story" and attitude might have gotten more than one person puzzled.
Do homework on anyone you want to It sure in hell isn't my problem
Mike S or you can call me anyone you want to
"I am in no way saying that I do not believe in Tom's background. What I did say is that I did not believe the "History" of Hom Do. That means that I think it came from somewhere else, like the true origin where Tom learned it from. I think Tom used that other story to cover the truth of where he learned it.
There is a difference between a lying fraud and someone who chooses to tell a different story of where they learned an art."
I guess this is early indication that a new "truth" is on the way.
Thanks for the heads up Tom
Edited by - me on February 12 2003 22:14:02
Fuh-Q-"I am in no way in the mood to start an immature debate."
There are only three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
Fuh-q, I have already said you can ask me anything you want and I will answer.
*****************THE TRUTH IS HERE****************
I have been following this thread as well as the others for a long time since these clowns live in my area.
The truth is Jeff Eisenberg is a CDT Instructor!!! Was he planted here by Tom Patire to stir the waters and create Controversy like Microsoft did with their new product line years ago? Using the theory of bad press is good press, this little soap opera gets all of them publicity. What has Patire been doing during this time? My bet is that he is laughing at everyone while he is growing his business. I saw the TV commercial that he has out, what does that cost? Should we really believe someone with that kind of cash would allow his name to be tarnished?....OR is it just part of the big picture?
I ask why? Why would someone who is affiliated with Tom bash him? Is it because he is a plant? I THINK SO!!!
Also here is a link to his website where he states the following:
**Certified Protection Specialist
**ITG Certification in: Advance work, Close quarter protection, Tactical Handgun, Technical Surveillance Countermeasures, Counter Intelligence measures, explosive search procedures.
**NRA certified in Personal Protection
**CDT certified Tactical Master Instructor in: Law enforcement Tactics - state of NJ & International
**CDT certified Tactical Master Instructor in: family protection-State of NJ
*THESE ARE ALL TOM PATIRE CERTIFICATIONS HAHAHAHA*
The following also came from all of his work with Patire:
**United States Marshals
**Mass. State Police/ local Municipalities
**United States Postal Inspectors
**NJ State Police
**Virginia State Police/ Local Municipalities
**Morris, Essex, Hudson, & Bergen, Passaic Sheriffs & Corrections Depts.
NY City & State Corrections Depts.
Numerous Municipal officers in NJ
This link not only shows you pictures of Eisenberg in his CDT uniform, Eisenberg using CDT techniques in all of the pictures, but also all of the certificates & letters posted either came from working with Tom or if you look closely, the certificate's are signed by TOM PATIRE!!! So let's ask the question WHY? Why would Eisenberg hang certificates from a bogus guy unless he is bogus?
That is because Eisenberg is a PLANT!!!
As you can see this shows that Eisenberg is still very much involved in CDT & it was ingenious for them to stage this little soap opera. It is what drove me to the CDT web site, hell I even bought the tapes to ridicule them & instead me and my wife ended up enjoying them. Thanks guys - BRILLIANT!!
My hat is off to you.
You Bulled The Bullshido's!!!
everything you have said about Jeff, he has stated all along in his posts. As a matter of fact Jeff brought up the certificates and letters he got with tom in a prior post, because they're the same thing tom uses as his "quote" credentials. Jeff even said he has either the best or the worst credentials - he doesn't know. The techniques on Jeff's website to me look like martial arts techniques from different systems. So I don't understand, I thought CDT was not a martial art?
If what you say is true and this is all a well planed PR campaign then I still don't understand why the questions at hand have not been answered?
Anyway why would one raise questions they couldn't answer? Ohh and by the way there have been other people asking similar questions as Jeff's.
Ya dude, lots of people have asked these questions. And Jeffs doubts aren't about the CDT system or mr.Patires abilities as a MAist, but about his history and inconsistincies in his story. I still dont understand why these questions cant be answered.
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
Dude these guys are making fools of all of us. None of them can be trusted! You need to go to both websites. I have seen CDT- eh- and now the Eisey sight is really lameo - funny looking but still lameo. It's all trash and pure BULL-****-DO. This whole thread wreaks.
There all laughing at us. My Master says everwhere he goes he sees CDT people and centers. He asked me why no one protects their leader or as he says unless the leader tells them not to. He says you watch what happens. The stronger group will have the final HA-HA he says this ends up in front of a judge. I doubt it cause it is just dudes mad at each selling noise.
It's time to start a thread that's kool - Lets ask Steven Seagal some questions and see if he answers. He's on the news lately for mafia problems.
Why do you all throw so many rocks? CDT has a purpose and place! You all should rename this place! “Kiddie Karate Bitch Board” or “BBJ riders” etc. This board is lame and full of 13 year old little boys! GROW UP AND TAP ON THAT!
Good Theory Truth - But I know for sure that Tom does not allow that piece of Sh#t Eisenberg around anymore. I can vouch for that.
Gotta love how he answered under bjj though. That is classic!
You know damn well the techniques used on your web site are stolen from Tom, come on now Jeff - we know they didn't come from your "awesome" martial arts background.
I can't believe the mockery you are making of yourself by still aligning yourself with Tom. You obviously list all of the certifications you earned through Tom, because if you took them away all you have is a picture of you with John Pelligrini, he is the biggest waste in the world. You have really stooped to the lowest level, what's next Mary, are you going to train in "Dim Mak?"
You are a joke! I actually wish you were still around, because I would have loved to pair up with you. Someone like you would never even last 20 seconds on the street.
Who do you train under now Jeff? Oh I forgot you take seminars. What a joke - I can't believe that you even own a school, I feel bad for your poor students!
ahhhhh here we go again. more name calling and bashing. but still no answers to the questions asked. wow this is just amazing tom just keeps hiding from the truth by bashing others. please just answer the questions and stop with the name calling. no one is calling tom names or bashing him all that was ever asked were some simple questions. questions that every business owner would be asked if one was buying their product. stop the childish games with Jeff said this and he said that. i once again listed the questions below just in case you forgot them.
many CEO's of big corporations in this country have be brought up on charges for lying and fraudulent advertising in this day and age the consumer has a right to know what their buying and who their buying from.
please no more he said, she said and name calling. no one is bashing you tom or CDT, just asking some simple public questions.
Once again here are the questions:
1)Name the instructors that are world wide that you preside over as grandmaster of hom do?
2)On realfighting.com, you say you trained in homdo 3-4 times a week as a teenager-where?
3)When exactly did you train in the phillipenes?
4)What exactly is the federal clearence that you have?
5)What is your federal govt involvement that
6)what govt agency is it you refer to that has approved cdt?
7) what court cases has cdt been inolved in?
you claim it has never lost, but has it ever won? Ever even been used as a defense?
Named in an action?
8)what law enforcement agencies or deptartments are you contracted to to train the whole agency?
9)Was the a&e tv special about itg the first course ever run?
10)How is it that one can trademark physical actions done prior to cdt's formulation. Actions found in many if not all martial arts?
11)Financial claims were made about instructors cdt sales, will you substantiate them?
12)The 600 cdt training centers, are they owned by you, or simply people authorized to teach a course?
13) Can these centers be contacted on their
success with offering the course?
Fuh-q, why so angry? This saturday @ 2pm
I will be training at my school with Stan White,
a combat hapkido instructor as well as a controlled force instuctor. Controlled force actually is an accredited program that depts
contract to train their whole agency. I f you want to show up feel free to, but please do not
lock me up for "stealing", and I will make sure Stan does not where BDU'S.
Hey Jes this Dude should start his own website an call it EISEYWANTSTOBEPATIRE.COM.
Have you ever worked out with Eisey? Can he go on the streets? He looks worn and old.
We looked at his website last night and it has BULL-SHIDO all over it. What a staff.
Hey Eisey a question from the DUDES - You have all this proof why are you airing on a site like this and not in front of the SYSTEM? No cubes or no cash or no nothing? Which duder?
Is that controlled force stuff the wonder system. You know you wonder if it works.
Also don't feel bad dude Segal never answered my questions.