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bjj
2/06/2003 7:41pm,
as consumers buying his services you'd think people would be knocking his door down for the answers to the questions below.

1)Name the instructors that are world wide that you preside over as grandmaster of hom do?
2)On realfighting.com, you say you trained in homdo 3-4 times a week as a teenager-where?
with who?
3)When exactly did you train in the phillipenes?
4)What exactly is the federal clearence that you have?
5)What is your federal govt involvement that
you claim?
6)what govt agency is it you refer to that has approved cdt?
7) what court cases has cdt been inolved in?
you claim it has never lost, but has it ever won? Ever even been used as a defense?
Named in an action?
8)what law enforcement agencies or deptartments are you contracted to to train the whole agency?
9)Was the a&e tv special about itg the first course ever run?
10)How is it that one can trademark physical actions done prior to cdt's formulation. Actions found in many if not all martial arts?
11)Financial claims were made about instructors cdt sales, will you substantiate them?
12)The 600 cdt training centers, are they owned by you, or simply people authorized to teach a course?
13) Can these centers be contacted on their
success with offering the course?

Tart-Do
2/06/2003 8:20pm,
McBullo's,

My instructor said he just saw the Tom Patrie commercial selling videos caled trainin For Life on national TV. My Instructor said now the jealousy will really start.

By the way he said the spokes model is a Hottie!

I'm kool with that.

Fuh-Q
2/06/2003 9:24pm,
I train in CDT & have taken a few Hom Do classes with Tom. I was also there when Eisenberg was there EVERY Wednesday night trying to sleep his way to the top. Bro, you are the biggest kiss ass that was ever around during those days. So stop your bitching on the Internet like a little bitch, and either go & talk this **** to Tom's face or shut the fu*k up. You contradict yourself. You say that Tom is an excellent martial artist, and that CDT is a good system, then you say he never trained, in an art called Hom Do. Well, I have worked out in Hom Do classes a few times, and I have no idea where it came from or where he learned it, but it sure as hell wasn't Hapkido, or TKD bullshit. The system is for real, and his guys bang. I am not macho and I am in no way trying to start a pissing contest with you Jeff, but facts are facts. Tom (Wherever and however) he learned his martial art is for real as well as the "myth" of Hom Do. He is not even trying to promote Hom Do. Tom has no problem saying publicly that CDT is not the answer all, it is just a compliment to the Martial Art you already train in.

I could also understand if you posed these questions as a legitimate interested person, BUT you trained in CDT for years, as well as I think you trained in Hom Do. You attended the ITG camp, you did work for Tom, YOU HAVE CERTIFICATES HANGING UP on your wall signed by Tom! YOU HAVE PICTURES of you in your CDT clothes hanging up on your dojo walls of you in your CDT jacket when Tom BROUGHT you to teach Law Enforcement Agencies with HIM! You have hanging on our walls LETTERS from People that you received when you worked for TOM, you have certificates hanging on your wall from the US Marshals where TOM took you along with him to teach at!

So everybody can now see it from the true perspective, you are only acting like this now, because you are no longer with TOM! Notice how you are the only big mouth on here talking this ****, you claim Giachetti, Vanderhoff, Stevens etc.. are this and that, well guess what? They have never posted on here acting the way you are!

In closing, grow up and if you really want to know the truth to these questions, go to Tom's office, like a man and ask him like a man.

I am personally going to call Tom tomorrow and ask him why you are no longer part of the CDT organization. Now I must know for my own satisfaction.

Fuh-Q

gong sau
2/06/2003 9:35pm,
I love how these newbies keep showing up out of nowhere on Homdo threads, who trained personally with TP:
Noo-ni-noo-ni-noo, surfing along, minding my own business...What's this? A website on frauds in MA? Oh, well I'll just check if there's a thread about my instructor. Well, lo and behold, there IS! Oh, my! What terrible, awful things these people are saying about him! I must correct their ignorance and then leave, never to return.

Come off it, Tom. Who do you think you're fooling?

jeffeisenberg
2/06/2003 10:07pm,
fuh-q, I I have always maintained that I learned alot from the training, and that has never been an issue. I also have stated that I have the same letters that I got from my association with tom that tom posted on his sight in response to being asked about his credentials. As for certificates, anything I have earned is on my wall, not just toms stuff. So I guess you haven't read all of my posts. The reason I am not in anymore is because I DID go to his office "like a man" after he showed his true colors by sending out a slanderous, lying, e-mail about a good friend of mine. I chose not to be blindly loyal and chose to side with my friend, and that sealed my fate. Once out ,I saw things a bit clearer and wanted answers to questions that yes, I should have asked long ago, but didn't, and I do not see why they are so hard to answer?

Fuh-Q
2/06/2003 10:50pm,
Gong Sau,

First off, I was directed to this sight by friends. Obviously word travels fast. For you to accuse me of being Tom; well that just shows your ignorance. Of course I am going to stick up for a system I believe in and an Instructor I believe in. Wouldn't you? What do you train in Gong Sau? Enlighten me.

Come on my Canadian friend, we all know just how well trained you canucks are eh?

Fuh-Q

Fuh-Q
2/06/2003 10:55pm,
Jeff,

First off Thank you for a mature response. I am in no way in the mood to start an immature debate.

I agree with some of your questions, that they should be easy to answer, and I have never asked as well. Truly I really don't care, as long as I learn something that really works and I believe in it. Obviously you do care, but hey that is your business.

I remember meeting you several times, and please excuse me for being ignorant, but what art do you train in? What is your lineage?

Fuh-Q

jeffeisenberg
2/07/2003 9:19am,
I really started to"care", when my friends and then I were personally attacked simply for asking on a professional level for proof of claims made in a public forum. Since they were made in a public forum, they should be addressed in that same forum. What really got me interested was how amazing it was that people were reacting with such angermuh like you did in your initial post. All seemed to attack the messanger without really examining the message. I am really more interested incdt than homdo. In fact, if homdo is really just a mix of aikido, depasquale ju-jitsu, and other bits of the best of other arts, I think tom should be proud of that. Many instructors that I know teach a blend of what works, some choose to name it, but all proudly state it. I teach a blend of "what works" that comes from judo, ju-jitsu, & hapkido,and escrima, and I state this in my
literature, as well as my web site. I learned a long time ago one style does not have whats best for all aspects of self defense. My official rank is in chung do kwan tae kwon do & hapkido, though for the last 10 years I have spent my training in the seminar world. My focus when I met tom was escrima. I then devoted all of my training with tom. Now I am back in escrima as well as hapkido. I would be happy to train and share techniques with you, as it has always been about training for me, but I have had enough of the "serve the master" bs in my time and thats what tom wants, and training no matter how good , is for me not worth compromising myself simply to train or be "on the team".

bjj
2/08/2003 7:39am,
it's amazaing all that was ever asked of tom were some questions about his training and background and instead of the answers we now have all this name calling.

jeffeisenberg
2/10/2003 11:34am,
Exactly! What amazes me is those that stay
involved inspite of their own experience first hand with all the bs. It is just like a cult.

Fuh-Q
2/11/2003 12:35am,
Jeff - You said yourself, the training is good. So where is the confusion on why we stay "because of the bullshit" I for one stay because of the training. I knew as soon as I heard the "History" of Hom Do it could not have been true. But hey, who cares, as stated before - The training is real. I also take CDT for the effectiveness, so I don't try to make money teaching it. Therefore I do not care of claims people state of how much money they made. I don't take CDT to make money. I take it because the system works.

I am in Law Enforcement and can trulely state that the moves work. I use them all of the time. Especially the facial nerves. I am sure you remember their effectivness, I here that you still practice them in your dojo.

That is all for now.

jeffeisenberg
2/11/2003 9:47pm,
Anything that I have ever learned that is good I
will utilize and practice. I have already made that clear to you and anyone else that has read these posts. The BS I refer to has nothing to do with the training, but again, I have already said that. Maybe you aren't subject to it or affected by it because you don't
try and sell it or work for tom and see it first hand? I e-mailed you after your first post, and gave you my phone # and you have not called.
You must know where my school is , but havent stopped by, why not reveal who you are? And by the way if you are in law enforcement, it seems odd to me that your first post would have been so angry and full of profanity, and without any control, maturity or restraint.

Fuh-Q
2/11/2003 11:22pm,
Jeff,

I have not called you or stopped by, because I do not feel that there is any good that can come out of me "talking" with you. I can say all I want to say here, and if I want training I am already set, but thank you anyway for the invite.

You are correct - my first post was laced with profanity's and I had no restraint. However when you believe in something I guess you react emotionally. As you can see, I have been civil since the first post.

You are right, I am not subject to any bullshit. As far as any of the jobs I have worked for Tom, I was also always treated and paid very well. Also his guys that he has working for him seem happy. Who does the bullshit affect? Other centers trying to teach CDT, or...?

And yes, I am really in Law Enforcement & if you think that officers don't get mad and curse, like everyone else, then you have a lot to learn.

bjj
2/12/2003 10:41am,
look no one ever said anything about the training or techniques. what's amazing is that the CDT techniques are martial art techniques no matter how you look at it. and that's fine but for one to say they are trade marking the techniques and if anyone teaches them in their school without being licensed will be sued is just crazy. bottom line you can't trademark anything other than the names, logo and maybe terminology. but yet tom try's to bully this statement to the public. which brings us back to the questions at hand. again he is selling a product to the public and the public has a right to know in a public forum what their buying and who their buying it from.
what's so wrong about asking these questions? why is it when these questions are brought up, right away the person asking them is cursed at, slandered and being called names for doing nothing other than asking some simple consumer questions?

Once again here are the questions:

1)Name the instructors that are world wide that you preside over as grandmaster of hom do?
2)On realfighting.com, you say you trained in homdo 3-4 times a week as a teenager-where?
with who?
3)When exactly did you train in the phillipenes?
4)What exactly is the federal clearence that you have?
5)What is your federal govt involvement that
you claim?
6)what govt agency is it you refer to that has approved cdt?
7) what court cases has cdt been inolved in?
you claim it has never lost, but has it ever won? Ever even been used as a defense?
Named in an action?
8)what law enforcement agencies or deptartments are you contracted to to train the whole agency?
9)Was the a&e tv special about itg the first course ever run?
10)How is it that one can trademark physical actions done prior to cdt's formulation. Actions found in many if not all martial arts?
11)Financial claims were made about instructors cdt sales, will you substantiate them?
12)The 600 cdt training centers, are they owned by you, or simply people authorized to teach a course?
13) Can these centers be contacted on their
success with offering the course?

Fuh-Q
2/12/2003 11:05am,
This is just a guess - but it looks to me like Jeff Eisenberg is also bjj. Look at the similar writings and punctuation. Jeff, why use 2 handles? Please just post under Jeff Eisenberg. You are obviously doing this to support your own stance. This is the most common and also easiest method of trolling.

Come on, lets act a little more mature.

I would like to see answers on some of these questions also. But the difference is that I will personally ask Tom when I see him. I am sure I will get my answers from him directly.

You should try to do the same.

jeffeisenberg
2/12/2003 1:55pm,
First of all I am not bjj. He took my questions
from another post and posted them under his response to you. Anyway, I did not say law enforcement does not get mad. I said your initial handling of this situation did not reflect
that of the character and professionalism I have experienced with officers. It seemed a ridiculous response to the matter at hand. And if you are law enforcement, then who better than you to understand ethics. The bs I was talking about was about people compromising their ethics because the training is good. I have said this all along, the training was good, but the ethics, or lack of, made me choose not to compromise mine. So how am I a contradicition? It seems you are doing exactly what I am talking about. You stated your lack of belief in the homdo story as well as sharing some of my questions. If they are answered and it turns out it was all lies, deciett, and fraudulant, will you still "stay for the training"?
As for trolling, you won't meet with me or talk with me, but still carry on this dialouge ...for what? Rather than try and get me to "reveal" something tom can use, just ask me. I will answer any question put to me. Since you claim to be law enforcement, maybe you can help answer a few questions;

1) What govt agency has accredited cdt as an
official training program required for all officers? (this distinction is much different then a few guys getting the chiefs ok to take the course, or being invited in to do a 1 shot demo or inservice).

2)What court cases has cdt been named in as a defendant, or used as a defense.

3)Prove that the people named in the ad made the money the ad claimed they had.