Because of the bickering of two specific members on this site I've started this thread;

Taekwondo has been known as Korean Karate for years now. They've tried to come into their own but as we know it's hard for a system to establish itself. There are many Korean systems that are laying claim to the name Taekwondo and as of yet only one is officially recognized by the South Korean Government (You TKD experts can correct me here if I'm wrong).

These systems, to name a few are:
Ji Do Kwan
Moo doo kwan
Moo duk kwan
Tang Soo do
Moo yea do

Other Korean systems such as, Kuk sool, Hapkido, Yudo, Gumdo, and Hwarang are content to not have the Taekwondo name attatched to them.

Discuss:

You forgot Oh do kwon, or some **** like that ( the ITF one).
And what TKD was BEFORE the WTF is nothing like what it is now.
Anyone who has ever seen the first 3 generations of ITF can tell you that.

agreed. except i've never heard of Moo Doo Kwan or Moo Yea Do. and one of the major ones is Chung Do Kwan, which is a major branch.

oh, and i think me giving so much **** to Yumi about it was inappropriate, i apologize. I'll be more constructive in my posts now.

I will disagree with the Tang soo do.
TSD, is also known as moo duk kwan; however, I beleive there was some split when some in moo duk kwan changed the name to TKD. They wanted their "kwan" to profit from the government regulation. More traditional elements stayed with TSD.
I may not have the exact facts right. But from what I know of moo duk kwan as TKD the forms are TKD forms, whereas TSD guys, like me do shotokan forms.

Also, because of obvious reasons, most TSD people I know do not want to be associated with TKD. :)

You forgot Song Moo Kwan.

As I see it, most of the heads of other Korean arts seperate themselves from TKD, not because TKD sucks but because they are trying to elevate themselves higher in the martial arts community. Regardless of their arts sucks too.
TKD history is easy to verify these days, but saying my art came from a monk on a moutain top and passed it on to me is cooler then admitting that they learned some karate, mixed in some kung fu and renamed it.

Egos ruin everyting.

If you want to argue TKD , just ask who created it? the general is the true founder of the art, and the true TKD is ITF, the WTF is the product of the governments revision to the art since he did not want to join the commy bastards and yada yada yada. This topic is so 80's. :-p

Originally posted by omega
[B][I]
Other Korean systems such as, Kuk sool, Hapkido, Yudo, Gumdo, and Hwarang are content to not have the Taekwondo name attatched to them.

Discuss:

Let me also just add, it's only natural for these arts to want their own identity when it comes to history. But that does not negate the fact that Hapkido, Yudo, and Gumdo are often found nursing on the tit of TKD commerical success. Why the hell else would you find so many TKD schools that offer these programs???

As for the founders of Kuk Sool Won and Hwarngdo, those motherfuckers are just plain assholes. Instead of being happy known as another cog in the martial arts cycle or perhaps just innovaters, they want to be deified like Usheiba and Kano. Japanse nutridin' bastards.

If you want to argue TKD , just ask who created it? the general is the true founder of the art, and the true TKD is ITF,
Wouldn't the real father of TKD be Gichin Funakoshi, and the true TKD be Shotokan? That's where it came from.

The "true father" of TKD is living in another country and denying ever having slept w/ the mother of tkd.

The mother of tkd in turn tells tkd that his father was a great war hero....who gave his life to save some children from a burning building

It is a sad story as old as time.

Originally posted by Rogue
Wouldn't the real father of TKD be Gichin Funakoshi, and the true TKD be Shotokan? That's where it came from.

Nope...Not all of the original Kwans founders Shotokan students. (sit back children..Uncle Miguk will tell you a quick story Korean TKD :))

Chungdokwan and Songmookwan founders were Shotokan practitioners. Jidokwan was comprised of Shotokan and Shudokan. Changmookwan was founded by a Shudokan practitioner (who was originally part of the Jidokwan). Moodukkwan was founded by a guy who mixed and match Chinese Chuan'fa with Okinawan forms (learned them from a book). Note: These were the first 5 kwans that put TKD together.

Gen. Choi, if anything, founded the name. TKD was formed through the effort of many people not just him. If you really want to get anal about it, Gen. Choi was only a brown belt in Shotokan and manipulated his way to get a dan cert in Chungdokwan, was given an honorary 5th dan in CDK which was later revoked by GM Lee. Now this is not to take away from the fact the man spent his entire life promoting ITF-TKD around the world and building a strong organization. I feel he is well deserved of whatever rank he achieved through his years. However, if we are going to get anal about true history, well then here you go.

Originally posted by Moogong77
Let me also just add, it's only natural for these arts to want their own identity when it comes to history. But that does not negate the fact that Hapkido, Yudo, and Gumdo are often found nursing on the tit of TKD commerical success. Why the hell else would you find so many TKD schools that offer these programs???

As for the founders of Kuk Sool Won and Hwarngdo, those motherfuckers are just plain assholes. Instead of being happy known as another cog in the martial arts cycle or perhaps just innovaters, they want to be deified like Usheiba and Kano. Japanse nutridin' bastards.

Survey said......~buzzzer~ Sorry you win nothing.

Kumdo and Hapkido are not sucking on the tit of TKD. On the contrary. What you are seeing in these TKD schools are most likely Combat HKD (which is just appauling) and the Kumdo is most likely Haidong Kumdo (which is being taught as a supplemental art in those schools).

The fact of the matter is that Daehan Kumdo (which is Japanese Kendo and HKD have been around, though just not as popular.) However Han, Boo-song had notarity with HKD (throught the Billy Jack movies) prior to Joohn Rhee with TKD. Plus you go tell a Korean Yudo player that he is nursing on the tit of TKD and you best be prepared to swallow your own nuts.

Originally posted by #1plumber
The "true father" of TKD is living in another country and denying ever having slept w/ the mother of tkd.

The mother of tkd in turn tells tkd that his father was a great war hero....who gave his life to save some children from a burning building

It is a sad story as old as time.

Yes, TKD is the bastard child of a thousand screaming Korean maniacs.

Originally posted by ronin69
You forgot Oh do kwon, or some **** like that ( the ITF one).
And what TKD was BEFORE the WTF is nothing like what it is now.
Anyone who has ever seen the first 3 generations of ITF can tell you that.

Agreed. Ohdokwan (translate School of Our Way) is what ITF TKD is based on. It is the closest thing to Korean Karate you will find surviving today.

1. Yudo is Judo.
2. I played TKD (both WTF (Vienna Austria) and ITF (guys from Afganistan bask in Czechoslovakia)). Most players were tough as hell and could kick like mules. This was in something like 1990. Especially the Afghan guys were just insane.
The only "bad" TKD I'we seen was in the US.

Tomas

Originally posted by m4949
I will disagree with the Tang soo do.
TSD, is also known as moo duk kwan; however, I beleive there was some split when some in moo duk kwan changed the name to TKD. They wanted their "kwan" to profit from the government regulation. More traditional elements stayed with TSD.
I may not have the exact facts right. But from what I know of moo duk kwan as TKD the forms are TKD forms, whereas TSD guys, like me do shotokan forms.

Also, because of obvious reasons, most TSD people I know do not want to be associated with TKD. :)

Two kwans had internal splits during the formation of TKD. One is the Moodukkwan and the other was the Jidokwan. Both kwans thought the direction of this new art was not what they wanted for their art. Actually it was the older generation who did not like the idea. What ended up happening in the long run was that the kwan litterally split into Taekwondo-Moodukkwan and Tangsodo-Moodukkwan. Both entirely seperate entities. The TKDMDK people will 99% of the time just refer to their art as TKD and nothing else. You can sometimes recognize their kwan through a school patch. Other than that they have no links to the old kwan. The TSDMDK guys keep the same kwan symbol as it was set by their founder Hwang Kee.

As for the Jidokwan, they eventually all moved over to the TKD family. There were just a handful who kept it "pure". Many of them never passed the art down, were killed in the Korean war, or had very small schools. However the TKDJDK people still distinguish their kwan within the TKD community.

No, no, no, you guys got it all wrong. Tae Kwon Do is over 2000 years old and dates back to the Taykwon warriors of ancient times like the Hwoarang warriors. Now that I think of it, the Hwoarang means flowering manhood. Isn't that a bit, um, sissiness? "I am a flowering manhood warrior" just doesn't sound as fierce as "I am a Samurai warrior" or "I am a Hwoarang warrior" which, as said, just means flowering manhood. No wonder tey don't exist anymore :p