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Golddust420
9/17/2017 4:18am,
The western idea of what a martial art is, is farther from not even knowing what that term means. As a professional myself I would never dare to share my opinion unless instructed. A subject that for me is extremely personal and deserves great respect. My experience has shown me the difference. Martial arts has nothing to do with sports or competition. I see it constantly. Be it, I have never competed or been in a match. How I would do, I always wonder. And there is an attraction there. However the idea of fighting in itself is a mistake.

Martial arts to me is unity

MisterMR
9/17/2017 4:57am,
Even if you want to find philosophical values in martial arts, these philosophical values are supposed to be expressed through some sort of fighting.
Otherwise we wouldn't speak of 'martial' arts.

BackFistMonkey
9/17/2017 7:12am,
Western Martial Art ---------------> YMAS and slight title change.

The WMA forum is for discussions of Western Martial Arts. Discussing how Westerners are wrong and Sport vs Traditional MA's go here in YMAS (your martial art sucks) for it has been beaten to death a thousand times over on this forum already.

ermghoti
9/17/2017 8:07am,
The western idea of what a martial art is, is farther from not even knowing what that term means.

Let me guess, your definition differs from the one that has been used since it was first coined.


As a professional myself I would never dare to share my opinion unless instructed.

"Professional." LOL. You make your living at aikido? Nope. You're a hobbyist.


A subject that for me is extremely personal and deserves great respect. My experience has shown me the difference.

Respect and experience, bloviating and pseudo-philosophical navel gazing; tomato/tomahto.


Martial arts has nothing to do with sports or competition.

Which is why the militaries of the world hold competitions for their soldiers in unarmed fighting, hold competitions among units in simulated missions, and against each other in simulated battles and wars. Nope. Competition has nothing to do with real world fighting.


I see it constantly. Be it, I have never competed or been in a match.

This is obvious.


How I would do, I always wonder.

I don't wonder. It's already been demonstrated publicly, perhaps hundreds of times.


And there is an attraction there. However the idea of fighting in itself is a mistake.

If that excuse comforts you for your physical and intellectual cowardice, then good for you!


Martial arts to me is unity

Nobody cares what your personal definition of words are. Words have established meaning, or they are useless.

Martial. (http://https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martial)

Art (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/art)

Martial arts. (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martial%20arts)

Michael Tzadok
9/17/2017 8:14am,
The western idea of what a martial art is, is farther from not even knowing what that term means. As a professional myself I would never dare to share my opinion unless instructed. A subject that for me is extremely personal and deserves great respect. My experience has shown me the difference. Martial arts has nothing to do with sports or competition. I see it constantly. Be it, I have never competed or been in a match. How I would do, I always wonder. And there is an attraction there. However the idea of fighting in itself is a mistake.

Martial arts to me is unity

That makes absolutely no sense.

Historically(aside from the last century or so) when has any martial art existed outside of competition?

Aristotle felt that competition was essential for the unity of mind and body, and in Aristotelian philosophy a humans ultimate perfection was found in the unity of mind body and will necessary to overcome an opponent.

One of Japan's most famous martial artists, Miyamato Musashi, found his initial fame and thus the longevity of his philosophy and system from his quite bloody competitive record.

Rejecting actually fighting doesn't make you a better martial artist, it makes you a kratophobe(Kratophobe – A person who claims to be a warrior and yet has an irrational fear of realistic hand-to-hand combat training.
Etymology, from the Greek kratos meaning strength, might or power. As in the name of the ancient Olympic sport of pankration which means competition with all powers (No holds barred) and the Greek word phobia meaning irrational fear.) Try to spin it anyway you want but ultimately it isn't what was historically martial arts or martial arts mastery. Historically martial arts mastery was a form of evolutionary hoplology, in which the individual martial artist, after having attained a basic knowledge of his initial chosen art, would try it against others(usually but not always in friendly competition) to find weaknesses and develop his martial art into a gradually more effective system. When a martial art became overly codified and ceased such adaptation, it was usually at the point of extinction.

Take Musashi's Kenjutsu for example. His school and his disciples continued to evolve well after his death until the advent of firearms and the abandonment of swords as a serious combative tool. At which point it became solidly codified, stopped evolving, and now is about as realistically combative as soccer or ice hockey.

Permalost
9/17/2017 12:45pm,
So we can't talk about aikido cause we lack experience, but you, who has never competed, can speak expertly on competition?

GrouchyOldMan
9/17/2017 8:15pm,
The western idea of what a martial art is, is farther from not even knowing what that term means. As a professional myself I would never dare to share my opinion unless instructed. A subject that for me is extremely personal and deserves great respect. My experience has shown me the difference. Martial arts has nothing to do with sports or competition. I see it constantly. Be it, I have never competed or been in a match. How I would do, I always wonder. And there is an attraction there. However the idea of fighting in itself is a mistake.

Martial arts to me is unity

This post has completely changed my life.

battlefields
9/17/2017 8:29pm,
The western idea of what a martial art is, is farther from not even knowing what that term means. As a professional myself I would never dare to share my opinion unless instructed. A subject that for me is extremely personal and deserves great respect. My experience has shown me the difference. Martial arts has nothing to do with sports or competition. I see it constantly. Be it, I have never competed or been in a match. How I would do, I always wonder. And there is an attraction there. However the idea of fighting in itself is a mistake.

Martial arts to me is unity

You seem to have some sort of insight that no others possess, I would consider it an honour to read more about your position and your clearly much deeper understanding of the unity that is the definition of martial arts.

I do have to ask, though, is there a reason why you'd "never dare to share my opinion unless instructed"? And who would instruct you to share an opinion? If it is your instructor, do you have to share his opinion? Or is it him saying that you are allowed your own opinion, but that you are only allowed to share it when he says it is okay to share? And do you tell him before you share it so that he is comfortable allowing you to share your own opinion? Or does he allow you to share your opinion and is surprised by what your opinion actually is?

WFMurphyPhD
9/17/2017 8:38pm,
One of Japan's most famous martial artists, Miyamato Musashi, found his initial fame and thus the longevity of his philosophy and system from his quite bloody competitive record.
Miyamoto Musahi was great...how do we know? Musahi told us so in the book he wrote...about himself.

Raycetpfl
9/17/2017 8:43pm,
Miyamoto Musahi was great...how do we know? Musahi told us so in the book he wrote...about himself.

To be fair ...... the losers of the duels have not ever come forward to dispute his greatness.

WFMurphyPhD
9/17/2017 8:45pm,
The western idea of what a martial art is, is farther from not even knowing what that term means. As a professional myself I would never dare to share my opinion unless instructed. A subject that for me is extremely personal and deserves great respect. My experience has shown me the difference. Martial arts has nothing to do with sports or competition. I see it constantly. Be it, I have never competed or been in a match. How I would do, I always wonder. And there is an attraction there. However the idea of fighting in itself is a mistake.

Martial arts to me is unity

I just rolled at someone else's gym during an open mat after a invitational tournament, tore my ribs on the first roll, and got my ass kicked for about an hour after that, often by people with 1/5 of my training time.
Real martial arts, if martial arts are a thing, are often ugly, surprising, and respect no one.

Permalost
9/17/2017 8:59pm,
The western idea of what a martial art is, is farther from not even knowing what that term means. As a professional myself I would never dare to share my opinion unless instructed. A subject that for me is extremely personal and deserves great respect. My experience has shown me the difference. Martial arts has nothing to do with sports or competition. I see it constantly. Be it, I have never competed or been in a match. How I would do, I always wonder. And there is an attraction there. However the idea of fighting in itself is a mistake.

Martial arts to me is unity

This looks an awful lot like you sharing your opinion.

Are you from the West?

GrouchyOldMan
9/17/2017 9:06pm,
I just rolled at someone else's gym during an open mat after a invitational tournament, tore my ribs on the first roll, and got my ass kicked for about an hour after that, often by people with 1/5 of my training time.
Real martial arts, if martial arts are a thing, are often ugly, surprising, and respect no one.

That sounds very unifying.

WFMurphyPhD
9/17/2017 9:16pm,
That sounds very unifying.

My ribs will probably be unified again in 2-6 weeks, thank you very little.

battlefields
9/17/2017 9:36pm,
We should probably make a tournament of some sort that allows "real martial artists" to test their skills without actually having to go against each other. Like, everyone gets together and shows what they can do in a cage but they don't touch each other. Just a whole heap of people showing off their most deadly kata, pressure point, and Ki/Chi mastery.

We'll call it the Ultimate Unifiers Championship, the UUC.

cualltaigh
9/17/2017 9:45pm,
So if I study a martial art that was fathered in the east but nurtured motherly in the west, does that mean that my idea of martial arts is eastern or western? Or am I mixed, like weastern martial arts or something? Or is it more fluid, like sometimes I'm eastern and sometimes I'm western, depending on my mood?

Oh god, I'm so confused.

#MartialArtGenderIdendtityCrisis