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Nutcracker, sweet
9/14/2017 8:47am,
Quick primer: Catalonia is state within Spain. 2 years ago, they decided by a narrow margin to leave Spain by 2017. Spain objected to this, obviously.
Last week, Catalonia said there will be a referendum (i.e. popular vote) next month. Spanish supreme court shut it down. Catalonia is thumbing its nose.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_SPAIN_CATALONIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-09-14-06-14-09

SneakyGoblin
9/14/2017 8:56am,
Catalexit?

An interesting development. I wonder what the state's options truly are when faced with opposition from the national government. On what legs could the Catalans enforce a separation?

DCS
9/14/2017 9:32am,
Catalonia is not a state but a nation within Spain. Leaving is not legally allowed by the Spanish Constitution.

I don't think the Catalan government has other means to enforce a separation than massive civil disobedience and international support.

ghost55
9/14/2017 9:35am,
I don't blame them.

MisterMR
9/14/2017 9:55am,
@DCS

In Italy, some parties in nothern Italy used to pretend that they wanted independence from Rome (until they got into government in Rome, when they substantially tuned down their plans).

In my opinon, the main if not only reason for this independence is that northern Italy is significantly wealthier than southern Italy, so many northeners just didn't want to pay taxes for the southeners, and mostly amped up "cultural differences" to pretend there wer.

For what I can understand Catalunian independence is more or less the same thing. Am I correct or there are other reasons?

BKR
9/14/2017 10:02am,
Quick primer: Catalonia is state within Spain. 2 years ago, they decided by a narrow margin to leave Spain by 2017. Spain objected to this, obviously.
Last week, Catalonia said there will be a referendum (i.e. popular vote) next month. Spanish supreme court shut it down. Catalonia is thumbing its nose.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_SPAIN_CATALONIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-09-14-06-14-09

See what happens when you move from fascist dictatorship to representative government?

Chaos...

BKR
9/14/2017 10:03am,
Catalonia is not a state but a nation within Spain. Leaving is not legally allowed by the Spanish Constitution.

I don't think the Catalan government has other means to enforce a separation than massive civil disobedience and international support.

Similar to Andorra?

Nutcracker, sweet
9/14/2017 10:10am,
Catalonia is not a state but a nation within Spain. Leaving is not legally allowed by the Spanish Constitution.

I don't think the Catalan government has other means to enforce a separation than massive civil disobedience and international support.

I defer to your likely better understanding of the political makeup, but isn't that exactly what's going on, here? Catalonia calls themselves a nation, but Spain recognizes them only as a state.

1bad65
9/14/2017 10:28am,
This has been in the works for at least 5 years. Immigration, namely Muslim immigration, is a big deal there.

The separatists even promised the Muslims a huge mosque in return for their political support for separation.

The region has been very open to Muslim immigrants. Its where Barcelona is, so we see where that brilliant immigration policy has lead them.

I say let them be independent and welcome in all the Muslims they want. When the Muslims start running over more people, throwing gays off tall buildings, and stoning women to death for getting raped, they'll have the utopia they asked for.


Sources:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/20/immigration-complicates-catalonia-separatist-picture
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4581/barcelona-mega-mosque

Nutcracker, sweet
9/14/2017 11:09am,
This has been in the works for at least 5 years. Immigration, namely Muslim immigration, is a big deal there.

The separatists even promised the Muslims a huge mosque in return for their political support for separation.

The region has been very open to Muslim immigrants. Its where Barcelona is, so we see where that brilliant immigration policy has lead them.

I say let them be independent and welcome in all the Muslims they want. When the Muslims start running over more people, throwing gays off tall buildings, and stoning women to death for getting raped, they'll have the utopia they asked for.


Sources:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/20/immigration-complicates-catalonia-separatist-picture
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4581/barcelona-mega-mosque

Not sure how exactly this fits in:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/854106/Catalonia-Spain-civil-war-independence-manifesto-viral-referendum
Skip down a bit to the video, a sign with a hammer and sickle, "TOURIST GO HOME!" Apparently, there's a "tourism kills," campaign within Catalonia, but some of their rhetoric includes "refugees welcome." So, are they pro- or anti-secession?

(edit: interesting aside, why do people get so up in arms about a swastika, but are ok with a hammer and sickle?)

MisterMR
9/14/2017 11:09am,
I defer to your likely better understanding of the political makeup, but isn't that exactly what's going on, here? Catalonia calls themselves a nation, but Spain recognizes them only as a state.

I think that in context it means the opposite, that Spain recognizes Catalunia as an ethnic-historical-thingie (nation) but not as an independent country (state).

EDIT:
That is, "state" in this context mean "sovereign entity", not in the sense of USA "state".
Like in, the UK is a "state", Scotland is a "nation".

DCS
9/14/2017 11:13am,
In my opinon, the main if not only reason for this independence is that northern Italy is significantly wealthier than southern Italy, so many northeners just didn't want to pay taxes for the southeners, and mostly amped up "cultural differences" to pretend there wer.

For what I can understand Catalunian independence is more or less the same thing. Am I correct or there are other reasons?

The taxes element is an important element but there is also historical grievances at play since the War of Spanish Sucession (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Barcelona_(1713%E2%80%9314)) and, more recently, Franco's dictatorship.

DCS
9/14/2017 11:17am,
Not sure how exactly this fits in:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/854106/Catalonia-Spain-civil-war-independence-manifesto-viral-referendum
Skip down a bit to the video, a sign with a hammer and sickle, "TOURIST GO HOME!" Apparently, there's a "tourism kills," campaign within Catalonia, but some of their rhetoric includes "refugees welcome." So, are they pro- or anti-secession?

They are against gentrification and rowdy drunken brits.

DCS
9/14/2017 11:17am,
I think that in context it means the opposite, that Spain recognizes Catalunia as an ethnic-historical-thingie (nation) but not as an independent country (state).

EDIT:
That is, "state" in this context mean "sovereign entity", not in the sense of USA "state".
Like in, the UK is a "state", Scotland is a "nation".

This.

Nutcracker, sweet
9/14/2017 11:21am,
I think that in context it means the opposite, that Spain recognizes Catalunia as an ethnic-historical-thingie (nation) but not as an independent country (state).

EDIT:
That is, "state" in this context mean "sovereign entity", not in the sense of USA "state".
Like in, the UK is a "state", Scotland is a "nation".

Interesting, pretty much the opposite of how we USians use the terms. Apologies for any confusion caused by that in my OP.

DCS
9/14/2017 11:22am,
This has been in the works for at least 5 years. Immigration, namely Muslim immigration, is a big deal there.

The separatists even promised the Muslims a huge mosque in return for their political support for separation.

The region has been very open to Muslim immigrants. Its where Barcelona is, so we see where that brilliant immigration policy has lead them.

I say let them be independent and welcome in all the Muslims they want. When the Muslims start running over more people, throwing gays off tall buildings, and stoning women to death for getting raped, they'll have the utopia they asked for.


Sources:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/20/immigration-complicates-catalonia-separatist-picture
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4581/barcelona-mega-mosque

Hahahahahaha!!!!