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View Full Version : So people tell me Aikido is better as a supplementary art, does wing chun add much?



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kimjonghng
9/02/2017 5:00pm,
Ok so I often here aikido enthusiasts claim its good but its better as a secondary art, say on top of another art. Does Wing Chun offer much benefit to add on top of another style. I ask this due to having checked a few schools in the past out of curiosity with its common ancestor to goju ryu, my main style.

BJMills
9/02/2017 6:46pm,
Aikido- if you already know something like Judo- might help your skill set about .01%... might.

Wing Chun- if you already know a striking art- might only hurt your skill set by .01%... might...

I personally think it has the potential to do more damage.

kimjonghng
9/03/2017 5:02am,
Aikido- if you already know something like Judo- might help your skill set about .01%... might.

Wing Chun- if you already know a striking art- might only hurt your skill set by .01%... might...

I personally think it has the potential to do more damage.

See this is something Im wondering about. Goju Ryu has (apparently) got Wing Chun's main shtick of close range fighting and trapping in its syllabus but the punching mechanics of Wing, well theyve been discussed here as trash, and I feel Goju if it does have any of the trapping elements of the Chun, will most likely do them better and with more options than a chain punch

Ulsteryank
9/03/2017 5:08am,
I think Aikido as a supplementary art might be a good idea if you're lucky to reach 80, and too riddled with arthritis to move normal. At that stage I'd also think It'd be a good idea to get on the opiates and make other heedless decisions..

Honestly I don't have any experience in Wing Chun other than mimicking Bruce Lee moves as a kid, but I don't see how supplementing your main art with a related one would add much benefit, compared to say a more progressive striking art for ex.

kimjonghng
9/03/2017 5:13am,
I think Aikido as a supplementary art might be a good idea if you're lucky to reach 80, and too riddled with arthritis to move normal. At that stage I'd also think It'd be a good idea to get on the opiates and make other heedless decisions..

Honestly I don't have any experience in Wing Chun other than mimicking Bruce Lee moves as a kid, but I don't see how supplementing your main art with a related one would add much benefit, compared to say a more progressive striking art for ex.

Here's a thought on this actually. Why does Wing Chun get so much hype as Bruce Lee's art when he didnt even finish the system and dropped it for things like Boxing and tidbits of others to make JKD? Is Wing Chun basically riding on Bruce's coattails?

Ulsteryank
9/03/2017 5:55am,
Here's a thought on this actually. Why does Wing Chun get so much hype as Bruce Lee's art when he didnt even finish the system and dropped it for things like Boxing and tidbits of others to make JKD? Is Wing Chun basically riding on Bruce's coattails?

Probably, being that's how it got a lot of public attention. Like Van Damme and Muay Thai because of Kickboxer, even though that was only something he trained in supplementary, but I think Wing Chun in general faces the same attention a lot of the other traditional arts do.

PDA
9/03/2017 9:15am,
You would need to be pretty damn good at something before looking to Aikido and Chun to add something to improve you as opposed to spending that time training the art you already do.

It's like the excited white belts who obsess over YouTube tutorials when they haven't mastered the basics yet.

WFMurphyPhD
9/04/2017 12:23pm,
Everything is entirely situational, and depends on one's goals.
Frankly, I see a lot of similar movements and ideas in many of the long standing traditional martial arts.
Control the angle / line of attack, keep your posture while breaking your partner's posture,
in some arts it is with a strike application, in some it is with a non-striking finish.
If you are already a solid striker, cross training in a grappling art with an established competitive application can provide tremendous benefit.
Likewise, if you are an established grappler, cross training in a solid striking art with an established competitive application can provide good benefit.
If you are an established grappler, then cross training in an art that extends grappling concepts into the ranges you are less familiar with,
or with self-defense options you are not familiar with, can also provide some opportunity to get out of your own ruleset, and also correct fundamentals of posture and movement that you may have over-trained into a generally useful but still deficient or incomplete model.
When we over utilize sparring, we tend to become myopic on seeking what is immediately useful in application with the partners we regularly spar or roll or randori, in the rules of engagement we are training under.
Having a process where we put on the white belt again, and deliberately practice things that we deny ourselves in our familiar models of training can be very useful, particularly after we have solid basic usefulness in our core grappling art.
And in particular if we can get some time with someone who has practiced in that other modality for a few decades, and then again useful even more if they also have a background in our own core art, and can do cross over analogies, flipping your core art switch on and off in their teaching practice so your mind can examine the opportunities from your core art and then show the opportunities from the other point of view.
Plus, it's fun.

WFMurphyPhD
9/04/2017 12:31pm,
Put in more simple terms, if someone walked in my room with serious and rigorous practice for 40 years in Aikido, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Karate, a Weapons art, etc, I would happily throw my black belt in my bag, put on my white belt or sign of no rank, and consider myself very lucky to get some instruction from them.

SpamN'Cheese
9/04/2017 6:16pm,
Ok so I often here aikido enthusiasts claim its good but its better as a secondary art, say on top of another art. Does Wing Chun offer much benefit to add on top of another style. I ask this due to having checked a few schools in the past out of curiosity with its common ancestor to goju ryu, my main style.

Goju ryu is much of my striking and is the martial art I have the most experience in. Let me keep this short and sweet for you: Forget aikido, and forget Wing Chun. Supplement Goju ryu with judo or Brazilian jiujitsu, or just submission grappling in general. You will benefit far more from it.

I've tried supplementing Goju ryu with Bujinkan in the past, because I wanted jujutsu of some kind, and the idea of using diverse weapons and some ninjutsu was appealing to my younger, naive, and geekier teenage self. And while I learned a lot of cool stuff, it wasn't quite what I expected.And now that I'm (on and off) learning BJJ, I'm straight out saying that I was better off learning submission grappling to compliment my karate. I'm still not great on the ground, but I'm comfortable enough to not get submitted and to take the fight back to standing. Or I can submit someone who isn't used to being on the ground. Plus I'm far better at striking because my sense of timing and distance are trained more. Still have a long way to go, but I'm more than confident that I can handle most untrained people, and that's because of BJJ.

Most aikido dojo don't test techniques with any realism. Same for Wing Chun. Any practical stuff you'd get from them will already be taught in Goju ryu. But a lot of Goju ryu dojo don't teach much ground game or submissions, which is why I recommend judo or BJJ. Just my two cents, take it or leave it.

SneakyGoblin
9/04/2017 8:03pm,
Put in more simple terms, if someone walked in my room with serious and rigorous practice for 40 years in Aikido, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Karate, a Weapons art, etc, I would happily throw my black belt in my bag, put on my white belt or sign of no rank, and consider myself very lucky to get some instruction from them.

Incidentally, it's nice to hear from you, Dr Murphy

Raycetpfl
9/04/2017 8:47pm,
Put in more simple terms, if someone walked in my room with serious and rigorous practice for 40 years in Aikido, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Karate, a Weapons art, etc, I would happily throw my black belt in my bag, put on my white belt or sign of no rank, and consider myself very lucky to get some instruction from them.

Them: I am a Black sash in wing chun


Me: http://i.imgur.com/QnPoUlw.png

Raycetpfl
9/04/2017 9:26pm,
Ok so I often here aikido enthusiasts claim its good but its better as a secondary art, say on top of another art. Does Wing Chun offer much benefit to add on top of another style. I ask this due to having checked a few schools in the past out of curiosity with its common ancestor to goju ryu, my main style.
You seem to be a dabbler of sorts. I recommend picking something effective and sticking with it. Achieving excellence in a single discipline is superior to being ok in 15.

In Jiu-Jitsu we call this being a technique collector. Rickson Gracie, Roger Gracie, and Damian Maia all have very basic games that are just razor sharp.

WFMurphyPhD
9/04/2017 10:11pm,
Them: I am a Black sash in wing chun


Me: http://i.imgur.com/QnPoUlw.png

If Ip Man's son walked in, I would be trying Wing Chun that night.

I might naturally gravitate towards getting time with Jerry Miculek if given the choice of the areas of self defense I am most immediately interested in improving.

But, if somebody who had fenced seriously for 40 years walked in, I would be asking for a fencing lesson.

I don't collect techniques, I collect teachers with 30-50 years teaching experience who other people were stupid enough to retire because they are no longer shiny, or speedy, or young looking.

You be surprised at the walking encyclopedias on a topic with decades of experience that younger and stupid folks throw away when they slow down or lose their hair.

I like listening to those people talking about their domain of expertise.

Raycetpfl
9/04/2017 10:20pm,
If Ip Man's son walked in, I would be trying Wing Chun that night.

I might naturally gravitate towards getting time with Jerry Miculek if given the choice of the areas of self defense I am most immediately interested in improving.

But, if somebody who had fenced seriously for 40 years walked in, I would be asking for a fencing lesson.

I don't collect techniques, I collect teachers with 30-50 years teaching experience who other people were stupid enough to retire because they are no longer shiny, or speedy, or young looking.

You be surprised at the walking encyclopedias on a topic with decades of experience that younger and stupid folks throw away when they slow down or lose their hair.

I like listening to those people talking about their domain of expertise.

Fencing and IDPA aren't bullshido ,Wing Chun is.

kimjonghng
9/05/2017 2:52am,
Goju ryu is much of my striking and is the martial art I have the most experience in. Let me keep this short and sweet for you: Forget aikido, and forget Wing Chun. Supplement Goju ryu with judo or Brazilian jiujitsu, or just submission grappling in general. You will benefit far more from it.

I've tried supplementing Goju ryu with Bujinkan in the past, because I wanted jujutsu of some kind, and the idea of using diverse weapons and some ninjutsu was appealing to my younger, naive, and geekier teenage self. And while I learned a lot of cool stuff, it wasn't quite what I expected.And now that I'm (on and off) learning BJJ, I'm straight out saying that I was better off learning submission grappling to compliment my karate. I'm still not great on the ground, but I'm comfortable enough to not get submitted and to take the fight back to standing. Or I can submit someone who isn't used to being on the ground. Plus I'm far better at striking because my sense of timing and distance are trained more. Still have a long way to go, but I'm more than confident that I can handle most untrained people, and that's because of BJJ.

Most aikido dojo don't test techniques with any realism. Same for Wing Chun. Any practical stuff you'd get from them will already be taught in Goju ryu. But a lot of Goju ryu dojo don't teach much ground game or submissions, which is why I recommend judo or BJJ. Just my two cents, take it or leave it.

Already been doing Judo about 2 years now, was wondering hypothetically since I keep hearing the 'aikido is bad base but good supplement' comment when it comes to japanese arts.